Randy H. wrote on Sep 10^th, 2011 at 10:54pm:

First of all.  I appreciate all the suggestions I have received here but I don't have all my tools at my disposal every day.  I had neglected to charge the Solarity battery packs and I had a problem with that.  I'm not going to bother a neighbor numerous times to turn the key while I check this and that.  I haven't been able to locate my remote starter switch and I hate to purchase another one because I can't find it.

I read the FP current using a Fluke 123 scope, Fluke 88V DMM, Extech clamp meter and Solarity at the same point(s), all agree.

No I didn't bleed the air form the FP gauge as I never heard of doing that but will now.  All the FP was done while it was "running" and I didn't mention it because refering to AllDataDIY which "doesn't" refer to using the the test lead connection are within specs and current draw isn't listed.

I also tried connecting the FP test lead directly to the battery and it still doesn't start.

The pressure drops off while it sits and returns during the current state of start/stall, so to me, I have fuel pressure.

I didn't smell gas or exhaust.  Hardly a way to smell the tailpipe for exhaust while cranking whithout help.  Don't think that a remote start switch's leads are that long anyway.

Some of the tests that you guys have suggested I can do but others I can't till I find my remote start switch.  I haven't used it since the sixties but remember seeing it lately, somewhere.  If push comes to shove, I'll purchase another one.

I you choose not to respond anymore at all or not for a week.  That's fine with me as it'll give me time to complete the suggetsed tests.

Okay, I’ll try to answer the questions.

Bleeding any trapped air in the line going to the pressure gauge didn’t change the reading.  I do smell a faint exhaust smell.  The first screen shot below shows that I have primary coil current.  From notes that I made on captures back in 2003, the coil is supposed to fire when the EST signal goes to zero which it is.  The injectors are another story.  Not only erratic but not consistent in amplitude either.  From what I’ve read the high impedance injector should draw between .6-1.2A.  One of the screens below shows two spikes at about an amp but nothing over that.

The first shot in any series is noted what the waveforms are.  All connections made at the ECM.

I also connected my scanner while cranking and the RPM showed zero.  Not if this is a OBD-I, ECM or scanner issue.

Just for the heck of it I tried some Quick Start and it did run for a few seconds but I couldn’t keep it running.  It sure is a fuel issue but is it because of the injectors or their control??







     


   


   


   


  

Retired wrote on Sep 15^th, 2011 at 8:26pm:


That is normal - never pay too attention to certain scandata PIDS until the vehicle is started
It certainly looks like you have bad injectors here.

If you can do s closeup of the injectors only using 1 channel, we can see whether they are shorted. This will eliminate the PCM as a possibillity.
Some PCMS will shut down the quad drivers when a short is detected.

Thanks for answering back

Keep in mind the images posted appear to be from a Genisys OTC scope and it is pretty weak in resources.  One should be cautious to make calls on longer time base with this scope.  With the data displayed I would be questioning the accuracy of the trace in regard to the injectors.

If the OTC scope is the one only available it can be used but it does not take much to push it beyond its limits.

Sam

A short will show a upward line instead of a slope on the current ramp of the injector. Try using a short timebase on the scope - a few ms like 5 ms and then trigger a few captures. As JS mentioned the Solarity has a weak sample rate at longer timebases (im guessing 20-100ms)

It really sucks you dont have a picoscope - you could have nailed this much more quickly. The solarity is really a cop out for a scope.

If you cant see anything definitive with the Solarity:

You might try ohming the injectors and comparing them to spec, or take the fuel rail loose - disconnect harness and give them power and ground (jumper wires) with the fuel pump on and make sure they work and spray fuel.

Be careful not to make sparks near fuel - and also do not leave the fuel injectors on for too long. If they are good that will shorten their life.

Hope this helps

Retired wrote on Sep 16^th, 2011 at 11:56am:


Bill
Remember the question I had for you about what happens to the fuel gauge when you turn the key on engine off did you ever check that?

If the results are what I would expect then you could carry your pressure drop test with just turning the key on and off.

Just put 10 ms/div on that fluke scope and capture that injector again please.

Retired wrote on Sep 16^th, 2011 at 7:40pm:


Fantastic so we know we have good pressure

Retired wrote on Sep 16^th, 2011 at 7:40pm:


You are going to get an injector pulser and disconnect all injector electrical harnesses (very easy to do on this set up) At this point why don’t you use your ohm meter and check resistance across each injector?
Then turn key on to prime injector rail and then press pulser which will drop pressure X amount then go to next injector prime and pulse all pressure drops had better be the same.

Where is the 10ms/div injector wave from the fluke?

Retired wrote on Sep 16^th, 2011 at 7:40pm:


The regulator is the last part of the fuel flow, it allows pressure to build not block.

Retired wrote on Sep 16^th, 2011 at 7:40pm:


You are showing us primary current so we have to assume you have spark besides you said it ran on quick start.

The thing that stands out to me on the ref along with bypass/est is the speed change can you explain this for us?

Does the engine crank evenly?