Retired wrote on Sep 10^th, 2011 at 12:15pm:


What is the voltage scale of that EST wave?

Are you saying those waves you put up are from it cranking no start?

If so let’s get RIGHT back to basics

Remove one sparkplug lead from a sparkplug and  insert a spark tester like a st125 or if you don’t have one of these get someone to crank the engine while you use a screw driver inserted into the end of the sparkplug boot and held quarter inch from the block, is there spark.

If this is too hard for you get your amp clamp and connect it to the pink wire of the ignition module are there primary pulses.


But just pull the ECM out and hook up to C11 and C12 of that connector and get injector pulses.

Retired wrote on Sep 10^th, 2011 at 6:55am:

Just a guess - like I said before I didnt know the make and model so i was making assumptions
And so you know whats listed in service manuals (theory of operation) isnt even accurate most of the time. I know this sounds disturbing but its the truth.

If the car doesnt start at all - you dont need the scope yet.


Get back to basics as Mick said - but i will add a few things he forgot to mention (micks a helluva technician - listen to him and pay attention)

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Check fuses and battery voltage FIRST!

smell exhaust after cranking and see if it gets gas

check ignition for spark with a spark tester as mick said (or use a timing light and see if it flashes, but this is not as effective)

If these check out check timing with a timing light in bypass mode while cranking
************
After doing these basic tests report back your findings so we can narrow things down

Note:
If you have a good scantool you can put the car in bypass by putting it in 'field service mode'


Always check basics first before scoping and jumping in head first - it will save you time and headache later:)


Sorry for the confusion - when you said HEI i assumed it was a distributor system. Since you are not a technician it is a little hard for me to follow you at times.

Now that I know the engine and vin we are dealing with it makes things much easier. Thanks for the info.

But bear with us and we will help you fix your car.

Retired wrote on Sep 10^th, 2011 at 1:22pm:


I don’t like that bypass being high and EST activated on cranking.

Will you capture a start up like the one I have attached here I want to see that the bypass is not shorted to power right from the start of Key on engine off to key on engine crank.

Does this engine sound as if it is cranking very fast like no compression or even worse an uneven compression.

Please do the injector capture.

you never did tell us if you are getting spark or if the exhaust smells like fuel when cranking. These are simple tests that dont take 2 minutes.

Retired wrote on Sep 10^th, 2011 at 5:07pm:


One black connector on the ecm has 32 holes you will find C 1, 2 and 3 are empty in one row just count from there across untill you get to C 11 and C 12 those dark green and dark blue are the injector trigger wires

The other black connector only has 24 holes.

Randy H. wrote on Sep 10^th, 2011 at 5:14pm:

Not yet as I'm by myself.  Now looking for my remote starter switch.  I don't recall any exhaust smells.

Mick wrote on Sep 10^th, 2011 at 6:23pm:

It's on the FPR schrader valve.  I was going to save Part II for later but here it comes!

During the week or so when it was starting I connected the gauge on the FPR, KOER I'd get 36psi which is within specs.  KOEO, by the time I get to the guage it showed 41psi.  I put a current clamp probe with another scope I have on the FP relay and get around 2A.  AllDataDIY states KOEO at 40-47psi, KOER at 3-10psi less with 3500rpm.

After reviewing my Current Ramping 1,2,3 from Linder Automotive,  I'm assuming that it has 8 commutator bars, it calculates to 3640rpm.  Sounds close enough.  I emailed them and Jim said more than likely eight bars.

Diagram shows FP Prime Test Lead which Jim mentions in his video but no loaction is given plus it shows two ORN wires and there's only one.  I find this red wire with a connector up near the firewall.  Red wire on FP relay to.

I go directly to the battery with scope/clamp.  I get 4A, 46psi at 2000rpm.  Thinking it might be the FP relay, checks fine on bench but that's just with a meter.  I jury rig the relay to use the other contact while directly to the battery but get the same 4A, etc.  Later I set a meter so I can see it when KOEO and I get the same 4A for that few seconds it runs then.

I can't find any reason for the current draw difference.  Possible bad ground with the extra load of engine, etc. running?  All grounds check good.

I also put vacuum on the FPR while connected directly to the battery and the current only dropped .5A.

The one time that it started and ran for about five minutes, I was watching the injector pulse width.  It was around 2-2.5ms, it just stopped like one turned it off, no roughness or anything.