The Autonerdz Community Forums - Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico

jarvissamuel

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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #30 - Jan 29^th, 2011 at 9:02pm

Here are some of my general thoughts on this.

If MattF suggested it at one his courses great. I would not have seen it. Not that I have anything against him I think he knows Pico scope stuff pretty well from the times I have talked to him. It is just support is included in the scopes I have picked up from Tom so for me to pay a few hundred dollars for a Pico course does not make sense to me. If he is able to be successful doing Pico courses that is great and I wish him continued success. One of these days I want to meet him in person at Vision. Sadly this year is not looking good for me making it.

Concerning "Picogap" or time between screens it is both present and not present. If the capture time is contained in one buffer/window there is no gap. The issue arises when a shorter time base is used recording multiple buffers/ screens. What also tends to make it worse is running no trigger and using a PC with low memory/ specs.
It is also crippling using longer time bases with high requested samples. The amount of time between screens on a low memory PC can be staggering.

I am doing some testing to evaluate the change in performance of memory on the amount of time between screens. I do not have enough data yet to post results. The setup I am using is a wall outlet timer connected to a AC powered DC power supply operating a headlamp. The minimum amount of on time is one minute so that is the time benchmark I am using. The testing I am doing is set with no trigger and max requested samples on a 4423 operating all 4 channels.

To illustrate Tom/Carl's point at 10s/div the entire capture of on and off is recorded with no gaps.

On the other hand running a time base less than 10s/div has gaps between screens.

I have experienced faults falling between screens and it is frustrating but until I have a PC with very good specs I can not completely condemn the software for the fault.

I would also mention the "bells and whistles"/ software features it is important to remember how much Pico Scope 6 (previously Pico 5) software has evolved and that is without taking into consideration of the Pico Diagnostic software suite that is included. Advanced triggers, reference waveforms, math channels alarms and probably other things I am forgetting that each adds overall to the software.

I do miss the merge feature that went by the wayside and I keep dreaming that there could be a superimposed or raster ignition abilities. Although I guess using persistence kind of allows for superimposed, well kind of sort of.

OK, enough rambling for now

Sam

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SG Freshman Member Offline Posts: 10	Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico Reply #31 - Jan 31^st, 2011 at 7:45pm You guys can praise that scope all you want, but I'll continue to use the Modis as a scanner only. Hiya, Carl! Hey, I have a smokin deal for you then- trade for a current Solus Pro- no heavy Modis to lug around! Just think how handy that would be!
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SG

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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #32 - Jan 31^st, 2011 at 8:11pm

jarvissamuel wrote on Jan 29^th, 2011 at 9:02pm:

Here are some of my general thoughts on this.

It is just support is included in the scopes I have picked up from Tom so for me to pay a few hundred dollars for a Pico course does not make sense to me.
Sam

I think Matt provides comparable support and is good at it also. The courses were a) to peak interest in PICO b) to awaken some interest in scopes and their actual "ease" of use in diagnostics and c) some marketing (of course). Wink

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Carl Grotti LSD Guide Picogroup Offline Deceased Posts: 1,501	Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico Reply #33 - Feb 1^st, 2011 at 4:27am SG, Quote: Hey, I have a smokin deal for you then- trade for a current Solus Pro- no heavy Modis to lug around! Just think how handy that would be! No thanks. I just sold a Solus Pro. I can graph more pids with the Modis.
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Bob Cultrona Freshman Member Offline Posts: 8	Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico Reply #34 - Jul 21^st, 2011 at 8:38am Tom, Very good post.......someone on iATN posted this link, very informative. Bob
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Tom Roberts

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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #35 - Jul 21^st, 2011 at 10:10am

Thanks for reading, Bob. Good to see that we are doing some good here countering some of the dis-information elsewhere with a little reality check.

If this is the thread I think it is, someone there said "Sunshine is the best disinfectant". I agree. This thread can be read by anyone anywhere. You don't even have to be registered here as a member. Anyone can also register and participate for free should they wish to do so.

Update:

Pico continues to beef up the capabilities with the latest software. The power of the 4000 series scopes has been increased quite a bit at the longer time bases. All this with just a free software upgrade. This makes Pico now up to over 700 times more powerful than the Modis/Verus scopes.

For example, running one channel at the 87.3 minute Modis time base (20s sweep) you will sample at 25 Hz. The nearest Pico capture time is 5000 seconds (83.3 minutes) sampling at 19.61 kHz. That's 784x faster. Shocked

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Randy H.

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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #36 - Jul 21^st, 2011 at 10:48am

I have s firend that has a verus and he said he cannot see the waveform. I suppose he cant figure how to zoom by pausing the capture and changing time/div and volts/div.
I didnt even bother to explain. Grin

And he said he wants to buy a Pico - he'd be calling Tom and Brian every day for two years trying to figure it out......... Grin

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Earl Davis

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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #37 - Jul 21^st, 2011 at 11:29am

Randy H. wrote on Jul 21^st, 2011 at 10:48am:

I have s firend that has a verus and he said he cannot see the waveform. I suppose he cant figure how to zoom by pausing the capture and changing time/div and volts/div.

Hi Randy,

You can not change the Verus settings with the scope paused you have to change the settings with the scope running. The zoom feature works much better on the Verus than the Modis.

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Randy H. Super Nerd Picogroup Offline Tools are only as good as the Tech holding them Posts: 1,692 Bardstown, Kentucky Kentucky USA Gender:	Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico Reply #38 - Jul 21^st, 2011 at 11:43am Gotcha never used one - but I figured thats how it worked because thats usually how its done on other scopes. Thanks for the tip though.
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autosparky

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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #39 - Aug 20^th, 2011 at 12:50am

Just had a play with the new Verus, I have to say it's got the makings of a good tool. When I fired it up windows XP was so slow, it was faster for me to turn on my Diagun, plug into a car and extract and clear codes before Verus had finished loading!!

For a tool with bright touch screen, built in scanner and scope, wireless, onboard information it's great!
And now it has unlimited help desk in New Zealand

Might have a play with the scope to see what it can and can't do,

Would I but it? $15K hmmm not for me but great for a start up kit.

Better off with toughbook laptop $5k Pico $4K information like alldata $2K? Diagun scanner $5k

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can't see, can't hear, can't remember

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Randy H. Super Nerd Picogroup Offline Tools are only as good as the Tech holding them Posts: 1,692 Bardstown, Kentucky Kentucky USA Gender:	Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico Reply #40 - Aug 20^th, 2011 at 5:07pm My friend Rod here in Kentucky has the verus - and it sits in the corner collecting dust. Its sad. Nobody there uses it and yet they paid so much money for it. But in a flatrate shop, its hard to take time out to learn a new tool like that. That was the tech's excuse that work there........
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crackerclicker

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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #41 - Aug 20^th, 2011 at 7:00pm

Randy H. wrote on Aug 20^th, 2011 at 5:07pm:

But in a flatrate shop, its hard to take time out to learn a new tool like that.

if you've ever lurked in the snap on product forums you would likely find that verus and flatrate don't mix. many upset customers regarding the atlas program that started with the 10.4 update. now it sounds like the solus pro will be replaced with a new model that will likely have the same atlas program the verus and verdict are plagued with.

on a different note, anyone see some inaccuracies in this product comparison from ats?
http://automotivetestsolutions.com/documents/ATSEScopeProLtdCompare.pdf

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drdiesel1

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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #42 - Aug 20^th, 2011 at 7:56pm

crackerclicker wrote on Aug 20^th, 2011 at 7:00pm:

Randy H. wrote on Aug 20^th, 2011 at 5:07pm:

But in a flatrate shop, its hard to take time out to learn a new tool like that.

on a different note, anyone see some inaccuracies in this product comparison from ats?
http://automotivetestsolutions.com/documents/ATSEScopeProLtdCompare.pdf

Are you referring to the ridiculous cost to own one Smiley

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crackerclicker

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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #43 - Aug 20^th, 2011 at 9:43pm

i suppose the prices are actually comparable considering what you get at face value. this comparison is mostly fair considering they freely admit to a lower max sample rate. i simple saw a few minor things that made me wonder how much was put into the comparison in regards to pico.

going down the list i see problems with the "dual timebase", "pressure/vacuum conversion & tools", "add on products to limit obsolescene", and "additional tools working simultaneously on same screen" sections. additionally, i'd like pico to fix the one about "number of panels to display multi meter" Wink

.

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Tom Roberts

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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #44 - Aug 20^th, 2011 at 9:58pm

The other thing in that chart is the buffer size. For ATS they say adjustable limited by PC memory. Should say the same for Pico then. 32 million is correct for the internal buffer but it can collect a hundred million to PC memory.

More on the ATS scope discussion here:

http://www.autonerdz.com/cgi/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1271709853

But back to the Verus:

The Verus OS is XP Embedded...not full XP. The Verus PC resources are also quite limited...not enough to even run a Pico when you step on the gas. Shocked

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