Hello all -

A couple of disclaimers on this post first -

1. I've already posted this to the Pico Tech support forum, but since the only response I've gotten so far is from Tom... I decided to re post it here.

2. Just because Tom does things "wrong" and sometimes puts support ahead of sales I am not expecting Tom or anyone else on this forum to jump in and solve my problem since I did not purchase the 212/3 through Tom and am not an official Autonerd... (though those who know me would attest that I am truly a nerd ).

3. The post is a bit long... but if anyone has seen this or has further insight it would be greatly appreciated.


PART I: "Things don't work"

Product: ADC 212/3 with Pico parallel to USB adaptor

Software: PicoScope R5.18.0 (ADC200 driver v4.83

Computer: Thinkpad T60 (Intel Centrino Duo 1.66 GHz w/ 1 GB RAM)

OS: Windows Vista (Enterprise Edition)

Use of device: Automotive Diagnostics & Education


Problem: The PicoScope software will intermittently lock up and stop responding. When this occurs I can not use task manager to force the software to quit (neither commanding the application or the psw32 process to stop through the task manager will stop the non responsive program).

However, if I unplug the USB cable from the computer the software will respond and I can shut it down. In order to reconnect the computer to the ADC 212/3 I must do the following:

Go into the Windows device manager
Plug the USB back into the PC
Use the device manager to uninstall the USB to parallel adapter
Unplug the USB
Plug the USB back into the PC and allow it to reinstall
Re start the PicoScope software

Sometimes when I do this everything will run fine for a while. However, other times once I start collecting data PicoScope will lock up and I will have to go back through the above procedure again.

Occasionally, prior to locking up PicoScope will reverse the channel data (for example I might be looking at primary ignition amps on ch 1 and primary volts on ch 2, the amperage pattern will switch to ch 2 and the volts will switch to ch 1, then PicoScope will lock up).

In the past I have never had particularly good success with the USB to parallel port adapter and so I mostly used the ADC 212/3 through a parallel port. This no longer is an option though, since I am now using a laptop that does not have a parallel port.

Any help in resolving this issue would be appreciated.

(Same problem occurs using R6.0.12.2).

Loren


Tom's Response:

Loren,

You may have a defective USB adapter.

Is this Loren from Morrisville? If so, call me. I can send you another USB adapter to see if that fixes it.


PART II: "Things get more interesting"

Ok... I've been looking into this further and have come up with some further information.

I was able to set the PicoScope back up on an older PC that has both usb and parallel ports.

I also noticed that there seemed to be a pattern as to when the PicoScope software would lock up --> it would very consistently lock up when looking at both ignition primary V & A.

So, I connected the ADC 212/3 using the parallel to usb with the older PC and hooked up to a car to look at primary V & A. Sure enough the PicoScope crashed exactly as I described in the above post. I then connected the ADC 212/3 to the PC through the PC's parallel port and measured the exact same signals with no problem.

Since the problem occurs only with the parallel to usb adapter, I think it is definitely part of the problem (as Tom pointed out in his response). However, I think there is more to it than that and at this point I am not convinced the adapter is defective. I think it may just be confused...

The 212/3 can measure a +/- 20 V range (with 100 V over voltage protection I think). With the 20:1 attenuator on the channel to look at primary voltage this would give a +/- 400 V measuring range. Good for the most part when looking at primary voltage. However, primary voltage sometimes spikes higher than this. Because of the 100 V (or 2,000 V with 20:1 attenuator) over protection the ADC 212/3 can handle this. The PicoScope software displays the "out of range exclamation point" in the corner of the screen and all is good... when going straight into the PC with parallel data. However with the usb to parallel adapter I think the data gets scrambled, PicoScope software doesn't know what to do and locks up.

What I need to know at this point is:

1. If the above explanation seems even remotely plausible

2. If so, is this caused because the parallel to usb is scrambling the data because it is defective or do they all do this because the converter doesn't know what to do with an over voltage issue?

3. Is the solution going to be to replace the parallel to usb adapter or to use a 100:1 attenuator instead of the 20:1?


Thanks,

Loren

Hey Lorin,
I have ran across this phonomium<--thats a long word for this early in the morning) before with my 3k series. I went to the usb2.o adapter company(D-link) and they gave me an updated driver(orange driver) for xp. It may not be the same problem as your system is having, but it sure sounds the same. I noticed that it would happen more often when playing with the amount of captures taken mostly. You may also check to see if you have a GOOD usb 2.0 cable..they are not all the same. Your Laptop is leaps and bounds ahead of mine, already having the 2.o usb standard so perhaps a cable/adapter may be your problem. If you go into system properties does it list the pico scope under usb devices? Mine does now, says" Pico 3000 series scope" now.

Dave

I got the new usb converter and PicoScope is no longer locking up and crashing... Thanks Tom 

However, when looking at ignition primary volts & amps the data displayed is scrambled and does not reflect reality. 

I set the ADC 212/3 to view primary V & A on a vehicle, set up PicoScope 5 to save on trigger, and got the following results (on two different PCs - one running XP the other running Vista)

- with the old usb converter --> locks up & crashes consistently

- with direct connection to parallel port --> No problems

- with new usb converter --> Does not lock up but none of the data saved reflects reality


I annotated and posted screen captures as a Flash slideshow at:

http://people.morrisville.edu/~makila/picoproblems.swf


I also set up a save on trigger session looking a fuel injector (V & A) and had no problems with the old converter, the new converter, or the direct parallel port connection...


I need to walk away from this problem right now...

Loren

Tom figured out the problem 

RFI was interfering with the usb converter's ability to properly relay the signal to the PC.  A grounded tinfoil shield over the usb converter cleared up the signal (and stopped PicoScope from crashing)...




Thanks Tom!

Loren

Nerdiii towards the end has some discussion of your patterns shown in your upload-Mentions interference, came in this morning and went straight to your post to find your fix. Burning the mid-night oil has its benifits (it`s really the nerd series ! )
I guess we think we know it all, only to find out we know little, great educational resource Tom, cant thank you enough for putting these together. This series should be a prerequisite for any one working with a scope, no matter what there level or experience.
Thank you Nerdz.
Regards,
Dave

Thanks guys just trying to do what we do 

I Like the tinfoil hats.  Some think I wear one of these all the time 

Actually I take it off when I go to bed    

As for being a superhero or an alien...does alien abduction count? 

We are not superhuman.  Just dedicated.  Because:

"When you earnestly believe you can compensate for a lack of skill by doubling your efforts, there is no end to what you can't do"   


Just wanted to add that most of the RFI issue was mainly caused by the use of a spark tester.  Anytime you have a spark outside of the combustion chamber it will transmit some pretty intense RFI.