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Golf MK3 running bad at idle (Read 31,304 times)
Christian
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #15 - May 25th, 2011 at 8:09am
 
It has about 130 000 km or about 80 000 miles.
And it has a Hallsensor at the Distributor, Signals at
Idle and about 2500 U/Min attached.

I ohmed all cables, and they all seemed good, max 0,1Ohm Difference.
But that not really has to say anything i think.

Current Ramps i didnīt take that day because the Coil was new.
But i can do that on Saturday.

To what should ich set the Scope for a "long view" ? 5 sec/div or longer?
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« Last Edit: May 25th, 2011 at 12:26pm by Christian »  

Hall-2500.psdata (580 KB | )
Hall-Idle.psdata (539 KB | )

If you canīt fix it, donīt break it ! Smiley
 
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Randy H.
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #16 - May 25th, 2011 at 2:04pm
 
I dont see anything abnormal in the hall effect captures.
The reason I wanted to see the current ramp was not for the condition of the coil. but to see if the transistor or mosfet that turns on and off the coil was working properly.
1-5 sec/div should be plenty of time on the screen. When you do this turn up your samples up all the way, snap the throttle during the capture.
Your capture is probably going to be too big in MB to post here during the 1-5sec/div capture, so you will probably have to put it on the public login on the drop site.
You say there was no luck/no problem with cap/rotor?
How many channels on your scope? 2 or 4?
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Randy Hatton
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Christian
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #17 - May 26th, 2011 at 3:32am
 
Itīs a 4 Channel - 4423.
I didnīt see anything really bad in there, but i will take another look
when i have it here.The Cap and rotor arenīt so old,
i think about 1/2-1 Year.
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Christian
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #18 - May 27th, 2011 at 7:52am
 
I have done a test run on my neighbors car.
So i know if this is what you wanted...
Coil Current and Wire from Coil > Dist.
First idle,then on the Pedal and back to idle.
Itīs also an MK3 but only 1,6l engine, but same buildup
also with Distri. And it doesnīt run so fine either.

Link to Infos :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Golf_Mk3
The third Motor in the Table - Engine Code ABU.

A Picture how this Motor looks like:
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/9/9464/6992190/abu-29211.jpg

But can someone explain how i can load big files up ?
Here i always get a server fault.

Here is the file :
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/28671095/zu2-g3-rua.psdata

and a second with Current and Cable Dist > Zyl.1

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/28673127/g3-z1-rua2.psdata
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« Last Edit: May 27th, 2011 at 10:51am by Christian »  

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Randy H.
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #19 - May 27th, 2011 at 12:12pm
 
Ignition looks fine on this car - for a minute I forgot that this was a different car. Looks like this car may have a slight lean problem at idle.

Yes this is what I was asking for, but turn up the sample rates higher  - try to achieve a 1uS sample interval - you can check this in the properties tab to the right of the software interface. Also set the probe at a different  (higher kv) setting - on this captures you can see where the probe cut off some of the information.
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Randy Hatton
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Christian
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #20 - May 27th, 2011 at 1:23pm
 
Ok, then i will set it to the 27KW settings in the Tab and try to
push up the rates as much as it goes...

This car had a not right sitting Plug at Zyl. 3.
I wiggeled a little and it came off at once, i plugged it
back on correct and now it runs much better.
It has about 143 000 miles (230 000km) on its back Smiley
I looked at cap and rotor and they are the next parts it gets.
I am suprised that you say it would seem to be lean,
its not much, but it smokes a little and it smells like
that i would have thought it is to rich.But he doesnīt
drive much in the last 3 Months, so it could be the standing around.

I will do some more samples tomorrow, and of the
original problem car, as i get it here in the afternoon.

But this one,even if 5 Years older and with more miles down,
it has a "higher" Burnline, than the other one.This one has
between 1-1,5 KV and the other only about 0,3-0,5KV
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Randy H.
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #21 - May 27th, 2011 at 2:39pm
 
note that the pcm will compensate for a lean condition by adding fuel, most of the time which cant be burned if the fault is bad enough (will cause black smoke). Were these captures taken during closed or open loop operation?Or Do you have a scan tool?
I am actually surprised that I could not see that the number 3 plug wasnt right on the capture....
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Randy Hatton
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #22 - May 27th, 2011 at 2:43pm
 
Christian wrote on May 27th, 2011 at 1:23pm:
.This one has
between 1-1,5 KV and the other only about 0,3-0,5KV

that would mean there is a low resistance in the circuit or rich condition in the cylinders on the low kv vehicle.
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Randy Hatton
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #23 - May 27th, 2011 at 5:04pm
 
Quote:
But can someone explain how i can load big files up ?
Here i always get a server fault.



You should theoretically should be able to upload files upto 8MB to here in the same way as your smaller files. But... I have the same problem as you. It seems once I go over about 1.5MB the server drops me.

But I have had no problem up loading to the Autonerdz dropsite http://www.autonerdz.com/cgi/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1289074910 . Which does have a public access folder. Hope these links/info helps.

Quote:
There is a public login for the drop site that gives access to the Public Access folder.  This login is in the post you linked to.

This permits anyone to share files using the drop site, not just Picogroup members.  Just put your file in the Public Access folder and those with the public login can get it.

I sent J.R.L the login for the public area so he can use the drop site.  It's fine for you to share the public login, just not the Picogroup login.  Just be sure you only do this on an individual basis and not publish the public login anywhere.

The reason for this is we don't want just anyone to be able to get in.  Not everyone has good intentions and we would not want someone posting virus files.   



Tom Roberts
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http://www.autonerdz.com


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Christian
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #24 - May 28th, 2011 at 2:37am
 
Hi,
I uploaded some Files to a Public-Folder on the Dropsite.
But i donīt know how i can link to them.
Z1 = Current + Zyl.1
Z2 = Current + Zyl.2
Z3 = Current + Zyl.3
Z4 = Current + Zyl.4
ZS = Current + Cable Coil > Dist
LS+Z1 = Lambdasignal at the ECU-Pins + Zyl.1

We build in a complete Original new Distri, and switched
over all Leads from a other Car.
It runs better, but you can still hear and feel that
it has missfires here and there (PLOPP in the exhaust).

We sprayed all things like Intake and exhaust with a
leak detection spray,but could not find any leaking.
No changing in running or rpm rissing.

He told me that the Lambdasensor was replaced
about 1/2 year ago by the first dealer he was with
the problem.
The Car only has only one sensor.
No Codes stored in the ECU, but i did not expect any.

Chris
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Randy H.
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #25 - May 28th, 2011 at 11:33am
 
So you can feel the misfires in the exhaust? Do you have a firstlook sensor? I would tell you how to make brandonbs sensor but i would have to ask his permission first.....
If you cant find any air leaks,  (like for example brake booster, etc.) You might try doing an injector balance test, and current ramps of the fuel injectors.
Most dealerships dont have a picoscope, so you have a one-up on them in that area. Wink
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Randy Hatton
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Christian
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #26 - May 28th, 2011 at 12:27pm
 
This ist a Singlepoint Injektion, there is only 1 Injektor.
No, i donīt have a First-Look Sensor, but a WPS500 if that is o.k.

The Pico is no eqipment of a dealer, this is my own one,buyed privat,
used privat (most times) Smiley

You can clearly hear the "Plops", and i also did the cool
"Paper half over the Tail-Pipe Test" - and it sucks the paper
if it happens (that you can hear it).

Greets Chris
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #27 - May 28th, 2011 at 4:57pm
 
wps500 should work fine. if there was an injector problem I would think it would only affect all cylinders and not one or two. Is the misfire intermittent or constant? does it feel like one cylinder or more than one?
Is the ignition timing correct?
Do the exhaust pulses on the wps and a number one cylinder synch on channel 2. That way we can id the cylinder(s) causing the problem.
Then list your firing order of the engine here and we will go from there.
youll get it sooner or later
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Randy Hatton
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Christian
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #28 - May 29th, 2011 at 2:24am
 
The ignition timing was checked 3 Times,and by myself again,
that is correct.Also the Timing belt that is on the correct spot.
It is intermittent.It can run fine for 5-10 seconds and then
it does one "Plop", or it Plops 2-3 times right together, and then
runs smooth again.Then maybe after 1 or 2 seconds one Plop
again or for 10 seconds nothing.I would say that it is worse
when the engine was driven hard, so that it is really hot.

I had the WPS hooked up but i didnīt get a real good image.
Itīs not so easy as on the video, or maybe itīs my setup.

I did 2 files of the Intake, from cranking and running, that seemed
to work - and didnīt really look bad, but i donīt have a identical
car to compare with.I loaded them to the Dropsite (Intake-*).

I will give it another try on the other Car of my neighbor,
and then at the next Weekend on this one.

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Christian
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #29 - May 29th, 2011 at 3:45am
 
So, a quick take with the WPS and Zyl.1 from
my Neighbors Car right after Breakfast.
Could only do this 2 Takes, cause it began to rain Sad

2 Files new on the Dropsite.Maybe you could look at them
if i should set things up in a different way.
I Set it to Mode 3 and the Settings also.
One file at idle and the other at about 2000 rpm.
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