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Golf MK3 running bad at idle (Read 31,301 times)
Christian
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Golf MK3 running bad at idle
May 21st, 2011 at 10:09am
 
Hi,
A friend of me has a Problem with his Summer-Car.

The 1,8l VW Golf MK3 (AAM) from 1998 is not running so good.
I hooked up the Pico to the ignition cables, all look the same,
but i donīt think that the should look this way and not so "small".

I think i set something up wrong....what ?

All images i found ar much higher, and donīt have a "curve" in them.
The ignition-coil and spark plugs have been replaced by him
1 Week ago, but it did not change anything.

Chris
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picotest.psdata (217 KB | )

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Randy H.
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Bardstown, Kentucky, Kentucky, USA
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #1 - May 21st, 2011 at 12:59pm
 
Where did you hook up the pico on this wave? What cylinder?
Something is definitely not right here - one of the firing voltages is below 1kv and it happens rythmicly.

Also - I noticed this spike on one of the firings that the kv was very high....it looks like something is arcing before the plug fires - bad wire, etc.
Be very careful - you can fry the scope on stray secondary voltage.....
Try spraying some diluted ammonia and water around the secondary wires (if it has wires)
But it looks like to me something is arcing.
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arcing.gif (11 KB | )
arcing.gif

Randy Hatton
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Randy H.
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #2 - May 21st, 2011 at 1:07pm
 
And heres another on the lower kv firings......
This is Not normal unless it has a distributor, and some of the firings dont have this extra spike at all Like the second one
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arcing2.gif (12 KB | )
arcing2.gif
no_arc.gif (11 KB | )
no_arc.gif

Randy Hatton
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Christian
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #3 - May 22nd, 2011 at 1:24am
 
The car has a Distributor, and i get these low lines at about 0,5 KW
at all cylinders, even if i hook it to the lead from the coil to the
distributor.

But the Coil has good ground (0,05-0,1V interferences) and
a stable power (no bad drop outs in the Voltage)

When i choose the settings from the Menu with the trigger and
pull it a little down, i get this.Taken from the cable Coil>DIST :
Frist with 27KW Setting, 2. at 9 KW setting...

Chris
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« Last Edit: May 22nd, 2011 at 4:01am by Christian »  

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nobbyclrk
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #4 - May 22nd, 2011 at 2:26am
 
What software version are you running? I can't open either of your last two files. Sad

Andy.
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Christian
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #5 - May 22nd, 2011 at 4:02am
 
Now they should go
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Brad H
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #6 - May 22nd, 2011 at 4:23am
 
Andy,
he is running 6.4.95, same version I run.
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nobbyclrk
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #7 - May 22nd, 2011 at 4:49am
 
Cheers Brad.  Smiley

Wasn't sure. But I can download them now.

Christian, the days a bit long now but if you can get a longer time base on the screen say 500ms a division to start off with, -1 - 9Kv and 2MSsec sample rate it'll give the guys something to look over (they may then need another set up) then someone can give you some pointers on what to do next.

Did you get a chance to do a compression test on this engine?

Andy.
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Christian
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #8 - May 22nd, 2011 at 6:48am
 
I did a relativ Compression Check, that looked not bad.
I will look if i get the other Setups of the Ignition in a
few days, he is now on Holiday with the Car....
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Pico-Comp1.psdata (1100 KB | )
Pico-Comp2.psdata (1267 KB | )

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Randy H.
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #9 - May 22nd, 2011 at 1:33pm
 
If you look at the file, some have arc spikes, showing the arc from the rotor to cap terminal, and some don't. This means that something is wrong inside the cap or the rotor - I am betting corrosion or water.
I would remove the cap and rotor and inspect it. It may be that you have a carbon track inside which makes sense from one of your captures - looks something like a carbon track......
And a falling spark line like at the beginning of the burn line below indicates high resistance.

Keep in mind that even going off the coil wire it will still show how much voltage it takes to bridge the rotor/cap, and all the problems after the coil as well (with the scope). Its not like the old spark test where you check to see if the coil is good or not, and eliminate the distributor as a problem. (with the scope hooked up the distrinutor is still connected.)

Bottom line - check your rotor and cap - Personally I dont think you need any more captures to justify inspection/replacement.

But, if you have any doubts, it would really be helpful to take a few hundred captures at a longer timebase instead of looking at just one capture at a short timebase. Take your captures off the coil wire and use the number one cylinder as a synch so we can ID the cylinders.
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Randy Hatton
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nobbyclrk
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #10 - May 22nd, 2011 at 4:30pm
 
Quote:
Try spraying some diluted ammonia and water


Why ammonia?
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rod_au
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #11 - May 22nd, 2011 at 6:16pm
 
The ammonia helps the water spread out without beading.
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nobbyclrk
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #12 - May 22nd, 2011 at 7:40pm
 
Thanks Rod. Makes sense.
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Christian
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #13 - May 23rd, 2011 at 8:51am
 
I didnīt  really see anything bad in the cap oder finger,
but i will put a new one on and then make another shot
when he is back.
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Randy H.
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Re: Golf MK3 running bad at idle
Reply #14 - May 24th, 2011 at 2:16pm
 
Antoher possibility I forgot to mention is worn distributor bushings (since the firing kv follows a pattern sloping downward). How many miles are on this vehicle?
Can you show us some captures of the trigger signals (pickup coil or hall effect) and the current ramps?
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Randy Hatton
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