"You know there are two mistakes some make when it comes to troubleshooting... Using a scanner and using a scope. At the wrong time, for the wrong reason, in the wrong way, and without a good grasp of logic...The way I see it is like this."
" Many techs have gone overboard with scopes because they were never really taught how to not just view scanner data streams, but how to think. Deductive reasoning, inductive reasoning, and my favorite, "the art of inference". Sometimes what is NOT to be found in the data stream is a source of information. "
Jim you are so right. Even I am guilty of these mistakes.
I admit that I can overthink a problem, but in my defense I also like to verify that the worse case is not the cause of a problem. I also like to have have proof on paper for the customer and for the shop files, what was done before and list the cronic problems associated with their model car. Basicly to have an in house database of cars in our area/region.
Deductive, inductive and inference reasoning are to me, a lost art.
I have repeatedly seen how many new tech and some old schoolers take the scanner data at face value. I was once one myself until I got my REAL WORLD training. Now I understand that yes the scanner is a important tool, it isn't the perfect tool for every car or every problem. I believe that if scope reading and understanding were taught in my tech school, I would not be as frustrated as I am now.
"The world of scope diagnostics is much more absolute. Scope work is so much more direct. And if the interpretation of the waveform is wrong, you have no one to blame but yourself for missing it. Sure, scopes can lie, but only if there is an operator error involved."
Tom, you are absolutely right.
Why depend on a scanner software writer to diagnose a car when you can get the same info directly from the car. Tapping directly into the wiring harness to see how sensors and actuators really act. A good analogy is to use a vacuum gage to see engine vacuum, instead of the MAP sensor. We all know that the MAP can lie, but our gage will not as long as we keep it calibrated.
Carl, Nick, Mick and Fisher. I already know the power of OE scanners. When I was at caddie, I couldn't wait until I could use the Tech 2 scanner. I especailly liked the override and service bay test functions. However, it is hard to justify the cost of 5 or more scanners, plus a generic scanner. A scope and knowledge of it's use are much more cost effective. I do agree that every driveability tech should be required to have a scope, 5 gas, scanner, battery charger, charging system tester plus all the other engine related diagnostic tools.
What I think is an ideal shop is one where everyone teaches each other things that one is not skilled or experianced in and where all the diagnostic tools needed are bought without question. I have been to many shops and this "sink or swim" thinking does not help those who are new to the field. In fact it often discourages good techs who only need REAL WORLD experiance and guildance. I alway hear of this "shortage of experianced technicians". But there is no support for new techs who want to be the best they can. To me, feeding inexperanced techs to the wolves is only asking for trouble, repeated comebacks and misdiagnosis.
I am so thankful I found this forum. I wish I had this kind of access to knowledge and experiance when I first started in this field.
Gary
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