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Matthew R.

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Newbie dilemma
Oct 8^th, 2013 at 2:03am

Hello Autonerdz community!

I have never been so excited to learn something new, although I have yet to purchase a picoscope kit. I will be using these diagnostic tools for the shop I am putting up here in my country. Yes, I am aware that I have a lot to learn, but I have to start somewhere, right?

Currently, I have my eyes set on Autonerdz' "PicoQuad 4000 Deluxe" kit. I want to avoid multiple purchases for future upgrades, so I figured that purchasing a complete kit, or something close to complete would future-proof my investment and minimize costs in the long run.

I was wondering though if purchasing the WPS500 kit would be a good investment. Should I purchase the WPS500 kit along with the PicoQuad kit?

I know that this is a lot of money, but I am looking at the purchase as an investment for the long-term.

Your input would be valuable. If I posted this thread in the wrong forum section, I apologize.

Matt

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KarlW

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Re: Newbie dilemma
Reply #1 - Oct 8^th, 2013 at 3:57am

Matthew R. wrote on Oct 8^th, 2013 at 2:03am:

I was wondering though if purchasing the WPS500 kit would be a good investment. Should I purchase the WPS500 kit along with the PicoQuad kit? I know that this is a lot of money, but I am looking at the purchase as an investment for the long-term.

nemo,
Smart investment Wink

You are not making a mistake with buying a pico and even better from Tom.
I bought the Big Quad kit 2 and very happy I did last year.
Buying WPS is only gonna speed up your diagnosis once you learn it. There is Mucho threads in here Tearing apart wave forms and methods. Pressure transducer are awesome once you can under stand the language. This is the place to learn it too. Plus its so much fun learning! I have been using the pico for a little better than a year and think I do pretty good with it for a rookie. I will say this though. If it wasn't for Autonerdz and the members in here. It would have been a huge struggle learning the scope period.
Download software if you haven't already so you can join us in here.

That is my Smiley

Karl

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BMW Scott

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Re: Newbie dilemma
Reply #2 - Oct 8^th, 2013 at 4:33am

Karl is spot on here. I purchased a WPS when I got my quad kit also and am very happy that I did it that way. Start reading and learning as much as you can and you will find along the way that some of it may not make a lot of sense in the beginning, but as you go on learning it will start to make more sense. I have reread some of the topics several times and took more from them each time. Good luck and don't be afraid to ask questions.

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Scott J Hicks

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Matthew R. Freshman Member Offline No limitation as limitation. Posts: 30 Las Vegas Nevada USA Gender:	Re: Newbie dilemma Reply #3 - Oct 8^th, 2013 at 8:44am Thank you for your replies! im guessing the autonerd series is also a wise investment to kickstart my learning?
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Derreck LSD Guide Picogroup Offline It's getting better all the time... Posts: 2,367 Murray 535 ft Kentucky USA Gender:	Re: Newbie dilemma Reply #4 - Oct 8^th, 2013 at 12:33pm Cant go wrong with a Pico from Tom ... Words of warning. Take baby steps. If you jump into the deep end of the LSD pool you can get very overwhelmed very fast. Start small, go slow. You will have it down in no time at all!
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Matthew R.

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Re: Newbie dilemma
Reply #5 - Jan 7^th, 2014 at 6:03am

Hi guys, I still haven't purchased my picoscope as of late.

Getting cold feet because of the cost. I intend on using it in the shop I am putting up. We will cater mostly to preventive maintenance and quick lube change for now, but with an eye on specializing in engine diagnostics for japanese makes.

The reason I have been getting second thoughts is that my father told me that in his experience, he never really had to use the scope. I am not so sure exactly what scenario or shop he worked in, nor what was his method of choice in diagnostics.

I am pretty sure you can do almost anything with the picoscope, but my main concern from the business end of things is cost, and return on investment. I love the technology, if I had the excess budget I would buy it in a heart beat. But tooling up has been extremely costly.

Would I really benefit from purchasing a picoscope? Shops where I am from do not specialize in waveform diagnostics. I would love to get ahead of the rest and specialize in this method and ofcourse use picoscope and learn from this excellent forum and Tom

your inputs would be greatly appreciated!

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jarvissamuel

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Re: Newbie dilemma
Reply #6 - Jan 7^th, 2014 at 7:41am

Nemo,

In addition to the contents of an Autonerdz kit is the support / training that comes with it. That in itself is worth the price of admission even if you only use the scope on an occasional basis.

Keep in mind that a scope by itself is primarily for analyzing signal integrity and for comparing input output relationships. However, with the contents of a kit a lot of extra abilities are now included and add on top of that the abilities of the Pico software it is not really fair to compare it to a traditional scope.

As far as scope use, it takes time and effort to become comfortable with it. It also does not require a broken car to use it. One example is performing a relative compression test. This will allow observing engine base mechanical and the condition of the starter brushes.

The Pico software also has an additional software suite called Pico Diagnostic. The relative compression is also possible with this and can make a nice printout for the customer. It is a work in progress but for the amount of time it takes to use it, I feel it is a great supplement when it works.

The WPS is also a great addition. I can understand the budget issue. It took me a while to get one but I am glad I did. I use it a lot.

Using the scope is kind of a state of mind. If you are willing to spend the time and effort you will use it. Let me know if there any specific questions or examples you would like to see.

Sam

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Tom Roberts

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Re: Newbie dilemma
Reply #7 - Jan 7^th, 2014 at 8:54am

Matthew R. wrote on Jan 7^th, 2014 at 6:03am:

I am pretty sure you can do almost anything with the picoscope

Be sure you understand what kind of things are in the scope domain and what things are not. You are not going to get data pids, check fuel trims, perform bi-directional tests, read codes, etc.

Any shop that want to do serious diagnostics needs a lab scope. But it is just one of many things you need and not the most important. The scanner would be the most important. Then a good information system like Alldata and a lab scope, followed by smoke machine, pressure transducer, etc.

Matthew R. wrote on Jan 7^th, 2014 at 6:03am:

my main concern from the business end of things is cost, and return on investment

PicoScope doesn't cost money, it makes money. But...you have to use it. To use it effectively requires that you commit to invest in yourself with study and practice.

Matthew R. wrote on Jan 7^th, 2014 at 6:03am:

We will cater mostly to preventive maintenance and quick lube change for now

You may not need to tool up for diagnostics right away then, however if you are equipped and skilled to handle the diagnostic issues and make a happy customer then they tend to give you the gravy too. If they have to go elsewhere for the CEL/performance issues then you risk losing them.

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Tom Roberts
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fisher

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Re: Newbie dilemma
Reply #8 - Jan 7^th, 2014 at 12:40pm

Any aftermarket shop will need a scope. Even if you are very educated as well as talented, you wont dispense with it to use scantools only.
You don't need to buy the costliest Pico setup, there is the starting kit for about fifteen hundred, I hope to buy that this winter. I already have accessories like transducers and amp probes, leads,etc.
If you are going to seriously chase electrical issues then you ought buy a scope. There are no other scopes that compare to the value in the Pico. Many others are fine troubleshooters for the average problem...and they cost about the same or more to acquire as the PICO.
Do yourself a favor and start drilling yourself (studying, get that ASE cert under your belt) about electricity and electronics and don't mess around buying engine analyzers or scantools that come with scope modules in trying to acquire the scope.
Get real help here with Tom, his product and his customers.
I will be sooner rather than later I hope.

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Matthew R.

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Re: Newbie dilemma
Reply #9 - Jan 7^th, 2014 at 6:04pm

Thank you for your inputs! I am really looking forward to learning how to use the picoscope. I am not yet an expert in diagnostics, but I definitely would like to achieve that status in time. Reading your replies on this thread is very encouraging, and is making me quite excited.

What kit would you recommend though among those being offered here?

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PRESTON LSD Guide Picogroup Offline "Fix like a champion today" Posts: 4,961 Jensen Beach Florida USA Gender:	Re: Newbie dilemma Reply #10 - Jan 10^th, 2014 at 12:51pm I think that all the kits are great deals, but if you are concerned about budget, you can always start off with something less expensive and add to it as needed or able. The basic or Lite kit is 1 million times better than NO kit
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fisher Super Nerd Picogroup Offline Deceased Posts: 2,734 Concord California USA Gender:	Re: Newbie dilemma Reply #11 - Jan 11^th, 2014 at 6:42am I need to clarify my last post; "Any aftermarket shop will need a scope" is non-sense. "Any one seriously chasing electrical issues ought use an oscilloscope" is more sensible.
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Logic LSD Guide Picogroup Offline Posts: 4,144 Bentleigh Victoria Australia	Re: Newbie dilemma Reply #12 - Jan 11^th, 2014 at 5:04pm Fisher, You had it right the first time, An oscilloscope is an essential technically competent workshop.
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