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Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others (Read 34,637 times)
Christian
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Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
May 6th, 2012 at 5:02am
 
Hi,

Iīve got a Clio here what has a misfire,
at idle i can clearly hear it plopping in the
exaust.
The P0350 is coming back always after a
short time, and sometimes i get one to
the Throttle Body Circuit.

I took a sample of the Coil pack at idle and
with a snap.

Could that be the Prob already ?

Thx Chris
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #1 - May 6th, 2012 at 8:23am
 
Christian, my not being incredibly well versed in that particular vehicle platform, I will need a some time to get code description and set criteria. Cry  I would think that seeing which cylinder (s) were guilty would be on the first order of business list, so a sync on #1 Secondary event ("I would think,") be necessary. The current ramps appear unremarkable and taken at a pretty low sample rate, (To My Less than Proficient Eye) so you may need a primary voltage shot to get an idea of what is going on at the end of the trail. Then if that analysis dead ends, you can look at relative compression, (always done early in the process for me, with a sync so I know who's home and who ain't) fuel rail pressure drop, etc. Always remembering that making an engine run is just like lighting the BBQ Grill you need, the right Fuel, Air (Under Correct Pressure ) and a Lighter. The best of Luck.
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Christian
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #2 - May 6th, 2012 at 8:31am
 
Rel. compression i took a look also in the beginning, but
i donīt think the is any problem.
Its not running real bad, but now and then the is
a miss.Sometimes more,sometimes for 10 Min nothing.

Here is the rel.comp shot...
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #3 - May 6th, 2012 at 8:47am
 
Christian I just did a quick search for that code and the only thing that came up was done in German, so all I can say is it looked like a Throttle Body Undecided  http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=2001+Renault+Clio+p0350+code&view=detail&mid....

My AllData has Nada, Zip, Zilch, information on that platform so I would have to go Old School, but armed with the Throttle Clue, possibly re-vamp my testing strategy.
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #4 - May 6th, 2012 at 9:46am
 
Your current ramp capture I don't like. The turn on as well as the turn off are not clean like I would expect them. I don't see these cars so would ask for a little more to bring at least me up to speed.

Can you probe ignition coil primary?

How many cylinders is this engine?

What type of ignition system are we talking about? Coil with distributor, DIS or COP?

Your relative compression looks fine to me.

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Christian
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #5 - May 6th, 2012 at 10:24am
 
Its a 4 cylinder with one big coilpack and 2 coils
in it. Here are 2 shots, maybe you mean this.

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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #6 - May 6th, 2012 at 10:30am
 
Spence wrote on May 6th, 2012 at 9:46am:
Your current ramp capture I don't like. The turn on as well as the turn off are not clean like I would expect them. I don't see these cars so would ask for a little more to bring at least me up to speed.

Hi Spence, I wasn't wild about the Current views either and couldn't see the sample rate, but after your post I did zoom in and am seeing about 11us cut off, I'll have to go back to my Nerd series for another refresher on the requirements (At my age, every day is like starting over).  Is this what you see also?

After a little closer look it appears to cross "0" close to 11.4us
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Anthony Lamb
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #7 - May 7th, 2012 at 1:49am
 
Hello Christian,

I reviewed all of your captures so far and your burn time is very short. Your burn time at idle is only roughly 600us and when you snap the throttle it is only 290us.

The burn time should be around 1ms.

As for primary drive (coil turn off is fine at 11.2us).

Have you removed the coil pack and checked for coil output and see how far it spark jumps with a spark tester?
The rough rule of thumb is 30kv (13mm or 1/2 inch).

Your power to the coil pack looks good and relative compression looks good.
The ground is touch and go blue trace is 440mv (0.44V) and red trace is 540mv (0.54V) but the amperage looks okay.

I have attached some pictures of my measurements.

Anthony Lamb


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« Last Edit: May 7th, 2012 at 2:26am by Anthony Lamb »  
 
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Christian
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #8 - May 7th, 2012 at 4:38am
 
Hi,

Thanks, so you donīt think it would be the Coilpack ?
I donīt have a sparktester in this way,
but i just ordered one. It should come in a week.

The Coilpack looks fine so far, no cracks or
bay spots anywhere, the cables are fixed inside,
so i canīt remove these one on one.
The contacts at the Coil and the Cable also look
fine as well.
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #9 - May 7th, 2012 at 5:24am
 
How many miles on engine?
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Christian
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #10 - May 7th, 2012 at 10:36am
 
210 000 km = ~ 130 000 miles.
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Anthony Lamb
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #11 - May 7th, 2012 at 11:29pm
 
I would check your grounds if they test out okay then i would pull the coil pack out and use a test light on the coil secondary and see how far it jumps to the test light (don't let the test light touch the coil post) with someone else cranking the engine and slowly move the test light away from the coil and repeat for both coils. If it doesn't jump 25mm it is defiantly the coil pack.
Also i made a mistake with how far it should jump it is 25mm or 1 inch.
Also i forgot to mention you may have to run a ground from the coil pack body to engine ground when you remove it to test it.
Good luck
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Anthony Lamb
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #12 - May 8th, 2012 at 12:13am
 
Hopefully this picture will help explain how to test the coil pack a bit better. (coil is a old denso one i had laying around). Have the test light clip on engine or battery ground.
Also don't forget to check the battery terminals for corrosion.
Hopefully this helps out a little bit.
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #13 - May 8th, 2012 at 12:38am
 
Anthony , in every market exist a suitable and professional spark tester for under 10euros....

Most of them have possibility to adjust air gap and have pointers  how much kV is for every distance. And probably the most important thing is You can't get hit by secondary Wink

Coils on that particular engine last around 50.000km mainly because not all services have tool for spark plugs mounted on it. Result is over load coil because it has enormous resistance between spark plug electrodes. Some of those was found with gap 2.1mm , if you add extreme temperature  HT leads are exposed to( engineering on that engine is not great at least Wink )  and no possibility to remove them from coil and check for internal open circuit you get P0350 and You should always change spark plugs together with coil  Wink

One more thing to look when you have misfire on 1.2 16V . Lot of services just pull leads straight up when changing plugs instead of  twisting them before pulling and leads get damaged so its good to look for sparking traces in spark plug holes ....
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Anthony Lamb
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #14 - May 8th, 2012 at 1:06am
 
Hey Branko
I was just showing Christian another method as he doesn't have the right tester at this moment in time. Personally I always use a adjustable spark tester.
It's always fun when you do get hit by a secondary. Cheesy



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Christian
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #15 - May 8th, 2012 at 7:49am
 
Hi,

Thanks for the good Idea.
But i have a adjustable sparktester ordered, so
i will test it with that when its here Wink

The Spark plugs are about 1 Month old, they
changed them without a result, so i thought
about the coil.

I will look in the rubber hose to each Plug if there
are any traces and if they fit tight.
And then i will take a pic of the coil when the
Sparktester arrives.

Then i will see if it gets a new Coilpack Wink
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #16 - May 8th, 2012 at 8:07am
 
I can tell you that you should buy it just on model make without even codes pulled out  Cheesy  I have about 2 every week with same issue Wink   BAD quality and nothing else there
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #17 - May 9th, 2012 at 2:34pm
 
Hi Christian

Check the end of the plug lead about 20mm from the spark plug, where the boot narrows down

You may find a mark about the size of a pin head where the spark is tracking through.
HTH

David
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Christian
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #18 - May 9th, 2012 at 9:44pm
 
I looked very caregully to the boots, but couldnīt see
any thpe of spot, crack,trace or bad material so far.
But we will see when the Tester arrives, then the
boot ist sparking outside..
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #19 - May 9th, 2012 at 10:51pm
 
Although I know jack crap about this car, I was looking through your captures and noticed one point that looked different than some of the others.  Here are a few pictures to look at and some thoughts on them.  It's hard to say for sure, but I may have stumbled upon the point at which there MAY have been a miss.  Why it missed ( if it actually did ) is still up for grabs.  Do you have a pressure sensor that can be deployed into the exhaust in order to verify that a misfire is actually occurring during your captures???
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Christian
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #20 - May 12th, 2012 at 6:14am
 
Sparktester arrived - 25mm from Pin to Pin ?
Never ever....15mm yes, 20mm - thin Line, not constant spark, 25mm - no chance
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #21 - May 13th, 2012 at 3:48pm
 
Yep 25mm from pin to pin or on the spark tester where it says 30Kv.
Well done if you put a coil and leads in it should be a fix.



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Christian
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #22 - May 14th, 2012 at 9:56am
 
I Ordered a new Coilpack, we will see Wink
In the Time i took some Secondary-Pics,
and i saw one event repeating, but i donīt know
what i would name it, or if itīs nothing.
I would say "strange" - two other Cars donīt
have it.

Maybe this is gone with the new Coil as well Smiley
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #23 - May 20th, 2012 at 6:58am
 
Coil didnīt help - it was the ECU that was bad.
New one in and everything is fine.
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Anthony Lamb
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #24 - May 22nd, 2012 at 12:30am
 
Hello sorry for the late reply.
Strange it was the ecu and not the coil.
Does the old ecu have look anything out of the normal?
Can you post some picture of the ecu circuit board?
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Christian
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Re: Renault Clio 1,2 16V 2001 - P0350 and others
Reply #25 - May 27th, 2012 at 12:40am
 
Outside you didnītsee anything.
No bad Pins or anything like that.
No, the old ECU went into swap at the Dealers,
so we canīt open it anymore.
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