The Autonerdz Community Forums - Whats the value in a quality scope?

DerekJ

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I'm an Autonerd

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Whats the value in a quality scope?
Apr 14^th, 2020 at 6:43pm

So, this is a super noob question, I can only thoroughly assume.

For some background: I stumbled on this site when I was trying to determine some 6.0 power stroke tcm/ficm theory of operation. I am a diesel mechanic working at a John Deere dealer and do a lot of electrical diagnostics. When I went to school I learned about controller inputs/outputs/pwm etc. So I am fairly new generation. The only scope exposure I had in school was geared towards sine and square wave demonstrating position sensor and pwm. At work I do work with CAN (250K mostly), but admittedly I am not as knowledgable as I wish I was.

Ultimately, my question is... How more effective would I be at electronic diagnostics, if I had a good scope, in my profession? What are some diagnostics scenarios where resistance, voltage drop, and load tests would not be sufficient?

Thanks for any insight!

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Doug S.

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I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 609

Everett
Washington
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Gender: male

Re: Whats the value in a quality scope?
Reply #1 - Apr 14^th, 2020 at 9:12pm

DerekJ wrote on Apr 14^th, 2020 at 6:43pm:

Ultimately, my question is... How more effective would I be at electronic diagnostics, if I had a good scope, in my profession? What are some diagnostics scenarios where resistance, voltage drop, and load tests would not be sufficient?

Hi DerekJ and welcome to the forums. About the best answer I can give is just being able to see diesel injectors opening and closing to ensure proper operation, being able to observe cam and crank synch. There are some very good diesel technicians here that can tell you exactly what you're missing without having a good scope. You may not need it every day, but when you do need it, you will wish you had it. Wink

Take care,
Doug S.

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Logic

LSD Guide
Picogroup

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Posts: 4,143

Bentleigh
Victoria
Australia

Re: Whats the value in a quality scope?
Reply #2 - Apr 15^th, 2020 at 4:10am

DerekJ wrote on Apr 14^th, 2020 at 6:43pm:

So, this is a super noob question, I can only thoroughly assume.

For some background: I stumbled on this site when I was trying to determine some 6.0 power stroke tcm/ficm theory of operation. I am a diesel mechanic working at a John Deere dealer and do a lot of electrical diagnostics. When I went to school I learned about controller inputs/outputs/pwm etc. So I am fairly new generation. The only scope exposure I had in school was geared towards sine and square wave demonstrating position sensor and pwm. At work I do work with CAN (250K mostly), but admittedly I am not as knowledgable as I wish I was.

Ultimately, my question is... How more effective would I be at electronic diagnostics, if I had a good scope, in my profession? What are some diagnostics scenarios where resistance, voltage drop, and load tests would not be sufficient?

Thanks for any insight!

I will tell you what it will and won't do;

1. It will do the basic electrical tests you describe and give you a record of several synrronised events,

2. It will not do anything where you are limited by your lack of imagination.
Anything that you can think of to have an electrical signal can be exploited by your scope.

My recent development was to turn my dial indicator into a linear motion distance meter.

Bottom line you don't know what you don't know.

With a scope from Tom and the Picogroup you become open to the possibilities.

What it does the most is to assist you in your deveopment.

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Logic

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Picogroup

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Bentleigh
Victoria
Australia

Re: Whats the value in a quality scope?
Reply #3 - Apr 15^th, 2020 at 5:20am

Logic wrote on Apr 15^th, 2020 at 4:10am:

DerekJ wrote on Apr 14^th, 2020 at 6:43pm:

So, this is a super noob question, I can only thoroughly assume.

For some background: I stumbled on this site when I was trying to determine some 6.0 power stroke tcm/ficm theory of operation. I am a diesel mechanic working at a John Deere dealer and do a lot of electrical diagnostics. When I went to school I learned about controller inputs/outputs/pwm etc. So I am fairly new generation. The only scope exposure I had in school was geared towards sine and square wave demonstrating position sensor and pwm. At work I do work with CAN (250K mostly), but admittedly I am not as knowledgable as I wish I was.

Ultimately, my question is... How more effective would I be at electronic diagnostics, if I had a good scope, in my profession? What are some diagnostics scenarios where resistance, voltage drop, and load tests would not be sufficient?

Thanks for any insight!

I will tell you what it will and won't do;

1. It will do the basic electrical tests you describe and give you a record of several synrronised events,

2. It will not do anything where you are limited by your lack of imagination.
Anything that you can think of to have an electrical signal can be exploited by your scope.

My recent development was to turn my dial indicator into a linear motion distance meter.

Bottom line you don't know what you don't know.

With a scope from Tom and the Picogroup you become open to the possibilities.

What it does the most is to assist you in your deveopment.

By the way I have a John Deere 2130 1979 with hydrostatic front wheel drive and Lucas CAV injection.

How would you scope the injectors with a Picoscope and further determine if the injector timing was correct...and check the cylinder balance?

You can.

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agtech

Freshman Member

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I'm an Tractornerd

Posts: 1

NRW
Nordrhein-Westfalen
Germany

Re: Whats the value in a quality scope?
Reply #4 - Aug 24^th, 2021 at 10:48pm

Logic wrote on Apr 15^th, 2020 at 5:20am:

Logic wrote on Apr 15^th, 2020 at 4:10am:

DerekJ wrote on Apr 14^th, 2020 at 6:43pm:

So, this is a super noob question, I can only thoroughly assume.

For some background: I stumbled on this site when I was trying to determine some 6.0 power stroke tcm/ficm theory of operation. I am a diesel mechanic working at a John Deere dealer and do a lot of electrical diagnostics. When I went to school I learned about controller inputs/outputs/pwm etc. So I am fairly new generation. The only scope exposure I had in school was geared towards sine and square wave demonstrating position sensor and pwm. At work I do work with CAN (250K mostly), but admittedly I am not as knowledgable as I wish I was.

Ultimately, my question is... How more effective would I be at electronic diagnostics, if I had a good scope, in my profession? What are some diagnostics scenarios where resistance, voltage drop, and load tests would not be sufficient?

Thanks for any insight!

I will tell you what it will and won't do;

1. It will do the basic electrical tests you describe and give you a record of several synrronised events,

2. It will not do anything where you are limited by your lack of imagination.
Anything that you can think of to have an electrical signal can be exploited by your scope.

My recent development was to turn my dial indicator into a linear motion distance meter.

Bottom line you don't know what you don't know.

With a scope from Tom and the Picogroup you become open to the possibilities.

What it does the most is to assist you in your deveopment.

By the way I have a John Deere 2130 1979 with hydrostatic front wheel drive and Lucas CAV injection.

How would you scope the injectors with a Picoscope and further determine if the injector timing was correct...and check the cylinder balance?

You can.

Hey,
i hate warming up old posts. But would you mind explaining me how to check injector timing on a fully mechanical injection system with a scope? I have absolutely no idea.

Cheers

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