I saw recently one of the posters on this forum had little
formal training back in May and now is a Master Certified Technician and Cerified Mercedes Technican according to their website? Sounds pretty fishy to me.. Is their a way verify this. Thanks in advance.  "BMW Master Certified Technician Mercedes Certified Technician Over 7+ years of experience"

One thing I don’t like about PM’s is like this, it leaves the rest of us that would have learned something about this question unanswered. 

BTW welcome to the forum. 

Certified Master BMW Technician
BMW Master Technician
5 Years as a BMW Technician

Training Requirements:
ST043 - 2002 System Diag ST042 - E65 - Complete Vehicle
ST050 - Technical Systems
ST051 - Body Electronics l
ST052 - Body Electonics ll
ST055 - Engine Electronics
ST054 - Climate Control
ST034 - E46 Complete Vehicle
ST036 - X5 Complete Vehicle
ST037 - M5 Complete Vehicle
ST041 - Ms Complete Vehicle
ST056 - Chassis Dynamics
ST057 - Electronic Trans.
ST061 - Body Adjustments
MORE INFO HERE
http://www.timthomson.com/portfolioPgs/websites/BMWWS/requirements.asp

Could you please explain what this thread is about?

If it is saying you have to be a BMW master Tech , having performed a number of BMW ST courses, I say this, A BMW master tech is the last person I would ever employ.

How ignorant they are at BMW dealers.

Less ignorant after they get off the phone from me when they seek help.

Sorry mate, I'm well qualified to make the statements that I make.

I have had 37 years in the business and listen to stories from car owners every day about their experiences at the dealer.

I will agree however that the non dealer workshops may leave a lot go be desired also.

At times I mediate between BMW owners and BMW where the owners have issues with the work and performance.

Whilst we are on the subject BMW does not provide their techs with adequate training and their documentation is poor.

Last seek I was reading a document about the specifications of the brake booster vacuum sensor, a good proportion of the document was clearly wrong.

The next point that I will raise pertains go the very reason we are all here.

Are you aware of the OSCILLOSCOPE capacity a BMW dealer workshop has?

I will leave that as a rhetorical question.

If you will read my original post it reads.."I saw recently one of the posters on this forum had little formal training back in May and now is a Master Certified Technician and Certified Mercedes Technican according to their website? Sounds pretty fishy to me.. Is their a way verify this"

I was wondering how guy with little formal training could have become a Master BMW techniann is 7 months?? Also states on the website I got hooked from their techs are all of a sudden Master BMW factory trained techs when they never worked at a factory trained garage.. I do understand what your saying about book smart versus experienced.. if your not constantly being updated on the new models it would be very difficult to work on unfamiliar cars  especially if your shop doesn't have the proper un to date equipment and tools.. just because your skilled at working on a 86 BMW doesn't make you prepared to work on a 2013 BMW M6

DAVE,

I do not know where  you are working, but if you are working at a BMW dealer which narrows it down to one,(FATOOYWBFIBN) then you are violating the BMW Australia dictates by using superior self funded equipment.

And while talking about an 1986 6 series verses a 2013 M6 , if I try and make a warranty claim on a battery that I purchased from a dealer for the 86 635 E24 then in order to get that warranty I must get a ISTA report at a dealer in order to get warranty....say no more.

While on the subject want the phone number of a fellow with a 800km old Active Hybrid 5 series where BMW Australia roadside assist could not get the car going and I did it via SMS to the owner whilst attending a wedding?

Ask and I will give you his phone number!

As far as Master Tech certification is concerned, still do not get what you are talking about, but do you think for one moment that all the web sites that you see claiming "BMW Factory Trained Techs" are all BMW trained?
They are mostly people now wanting to work on BMWs who once worked in a factory....could have been the baked bean canning line at Heinz .

I can buy a degree over the net, why should I not be able to make claims about my qualifications to work on BMW cars which are total fiction?

It makes me sick to the gut.

If you have evidence that a person posting here is being fraudulent with respect to their credentials, then I suggest that you run it past Tom and on the basis of his sanction reveal who it is.

If you are a true Autonerdz member then in future post in the members section and be part of the information that is available there.

Sorry E93 not E39

Hi Dave,
Just so there is no confusion, can I just confirm you are not referring to me?

Apologies if I contributed to derailing your thread on the forum. This was not my intention.

Thanks

Tom,
Just so that you know what I'm getting at in Australia a BMW technician must use BMW test plans and BMW certified and supplied equipment.

andyz wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 4:55am:


Andyz,

I have not mis quoted you nor mis understood you, I have certainly not indicated that you work outside BMW guidelines...for I do not even know if you work for a dealer, I suspect you do but do not know it.

I don’t know who you are and have no reason to make accusations, attack you or single you out…you are doing that yourself, I would suggest that you rethink your reaction.

My experience is that this is a open and good forum where people are willing to help each other and I certainly adhere to that custom here.

You state “ and these I often use to confirm a diagnosis or to get a higher level of understanding of sensor signals etc”, I note from your profile that all of your posts that are currently visible from your profile, all 25 of them are made in the public section, do you not have access to the members area?

Assuming that you do not have this access, then you have missed out on quite a lot of specific BMW information, I have posted a raft of BMW sensor custom probes, as I delight in reverse engineering the simple sensors and creating custom probes from them, which I will readily and freely share exclusively with any Autonerdz Picogroup Area member, I note I do not publish these probes in the General Public area.

If in fact you have subscribed to the Picogroup area you are welcome to down load my probes and use them for your personal use.

What I stated about BMW guidelines is true across the board........a technician at a dealer is not permitted to use tools outside the BMW recommended tool set. You know that so please do not get offended at the truth!

Also a BMW dealer is discouraged from charging significant time for diagnosis..

There is a simple reason for this, BMW claim to customers that the dealer network is superior in every way and that only a BMW dealer has the tools and equipment to work on a BMW car. They further claim to the public in support of their claim that the BMW testing system makes diagnosis unnecessary outside of the diagnostic machine “AS THE BMW TESTER TELLS YOU EVERYTHING”, NATURALLY IF A DEALER TECH CANNOT DIAGNOSE THE VEHICLE WITHIN A SHORT SPACE OF TIME USING THE bmw TESTER AND TEST PLANS, THEN WE TURN IT INTO A puma CASE AND THE ISSUE IS DEALT WITH BY A German engineer, who instructs the dealer what to replace, taking away any further diagnostic opportunity from the dealer technician. Now that is a great way to hone one’s skill is it not?

Perhaps this is the reason why BMW dealer technicians are greatly ignorant.

Further BMW could have access to the best oscilloscope in the world…and I will admit that BMW Australia do have a Picoscope…ONE, and it is an old outdated 2 channel model.

In terms of you claiming that you are having to defend yourself...I fail to see that anybody has accused you of any thing...for it was you who chimed in saying "Hi Dave,
Just so there is no confusion, can I just confirm you are not referring to me?"

I fail to see how you could become offended...please explain?

Further you state that "From what i have seen, the roles of a technician at a dealer and at an 'after market' workshop are completely different and you definitely get good and bad technicians in either.
"
As far as I can see it the roles ought to be the same, we should be there to fix customers cars and in the case of a BMW dealer perform warranty work as well. (I might add the common practice of making false claims on warranty with BMW is also fraudulent and any person who works at a dealer who engages with others at that dealership to defraud BMW with false warranty claims could be criminally charged and found guilty of conspiracy)

Of course and independent can analyse a bad battery in an old E24 without a ISTA report !

For all other readers of this post an old 1986 BMW E24 635 predates modern BMW diagnostics, you cannot even plug a BMW Group tester, ISIS, ISTA,GT1 or any other BMW approved tester into these cars, yet if you purchase a battery from BMW and it fails in you E24 then BMW WILL NOT GIVE YOU WARRANTY UNLESS IT HAS A ISTA REPORT PERFORMED ON THE CAR....WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE AS YOU CANNOT CONNECT TO IT!!!!

The reason that BMW will not give warranty without a diagnostic report on their machines is due to the high frequency of both mis diagnosis and fraudulent claims for warranty by BMWs own dealers.

I fail to see how you describe independent workshops as being and specifically highlighted as "aftermarket", would you please explain why you use that term and why the emphasis upon it.?

The thread was not started by me and I did not seek to single you out at all, you have volunteered yourself for all the offence to you, at your own hand that you, for no reason apparently feel.

I asked Dave to qualify what he was posting about, I was not the only one, I fail to see why you would want to make out that this is an attack upon you?

I certainly pointed out that many people make claims about being tertiary graduates when they are not and also independent workshops making false claims that they have BMW Factory trained technicians when they do not..surely your experiences would also support my statement there?

Dave has still not adequately explained his original post, however that is a matter for him to correct.

Take a chill pill mate!

You come across, from my perspective, as being REALLY PISSED-OFF! Not sure why?

Aftermarket is a term used to describe a non-OEM built part or a shop w/o factory support.

Surprised that was so hard for you to follow?

Logic wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 12:07pm:


I'm done. Good luck, "mate"...

MJR ,
It is shocking..the support is very poor.

Also if you are not good on the floor of the workshop they promote you to service advisor..

Unbelievable

Logic wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 10:19pm:


Guess I'm not done! I misunderstood your opinion on BMW Dealer service. I have ZERO experience with BMW dealers and nearly no experience in servicing them, but I do find it somewhat "comforting" that someone else feels the info available is lacking.

I thought you were inferring anyone NOT in a dealership shouldn't touch these vehicles and were being unethical for even attempting a repair.

Apparently I was seeing something that wasn't there.

Logic wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 10:17am:


Unfortunately the real problem isn't so much a lack of skill as it is a lack of "want to" when it comes to fixing the tough stuff. Why bust your butt trying to figure-out a problem child when you can make 4 times as much selling services?

I disagree completely with that attitude but for every tech that's busting his buns on the hard stuff, resulting in less "productivity" than his workmates, there are 10 guys sucking up gravy.

Guess who the General Manger knows by name.

The guys that turn the big numbers. 

Logic wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 3:51pm:


In this area it's all about the numbers. If you aren't producing 110% they don't know your name.

Thanks for posting that Logic, it has turned me off ever working for a BMW dealer .

Logic wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 8:58am:


Obviously BMW don't want anyone working in a dealer to have any skills apart from changing parts, must be the main reason why they have such a large turn over of technicians. They must only want to keep all the knowledge in the inner ring of engineers a world away.

Anthony Lamb wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 7:03pm:


Do you want to know why?

It is simple, teach a master tech how to fix BMW cars without the support structure so that he is capable of repairing vehicles by looking at a diagnostic machine, wiring diagrams and tools like a Picoscope and that tech may leave and start up as a independent.

Now BMW would not want that.

Keep them dumb with only what they need to know is the policy.

Then they get indoctrinated that anybody who is independent is "aftermarket" and does not know what they are doing.

They fill BMW owners with the same crap, then employ young girls with their tits popping out on high heals that they can hardly walk on to flirt with every man who comes in...

The dealers think people don't see through it....well I have news for you they do see through it.

A lot of businesses are confused about what their purpose is, BMW has lost their way.

In Australia in the good old days when Ron Meacham was at the helm and Grahame McDougall was head of training, what a fine organization it was back then.

No, there is no way you would want to work for a BMW dealer nor employ somebody who has worked at one.

As a dealer that is !

No "aftermarket" allowed in Australia

Logic wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 11:28pm:


Yes I see that BMW sees that as a threat to themselves.
but they shouldn't be looking at it that way, surely it would cost them more on warranty claims by having poorly trained technicians and poor service information.

Logic wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 11:38pm:


Well that is major PITA.
Does seem counter intuitive that BMW is giving it's dealers less information to diagnose cars that are getting more and more complex.
BMW seem they want the warranty period to be over so they don't care how many parts get thrown at a car as they are making a fortune in parts in the process.

Logic wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 10:17am:


Sadly I can say that isn't just limited to BMW dealers...
This is another thread in itself.

Dave,
On the master tech certification side of things in the dealer world/land.
From personal experience you turn up you pretty much pass that cert.
So there are heaps of dealer "certified" in different areas or even master technicians that still don't understand the basic things like voltage drop, how to use a scanner or a scope.
Looks good to have all these certificates on the wall on the waiting room for customers to see, in reality the tech is good at throwing parts but not at solving the actual problem.
As to find out I couldn't really say you could verify them here in Australia without being in that certain dealer network.

A 1986 model is still covered under warranty? Even the battery?

OK...any good reason to pay 4 times as much for a BMW battery? I'm just assuming they are expensive.

Logic wrote on Feb 1^st, 2014 at 3:29pm:


Man you seem to be really pissed with BMW. Did one of the mangers nail your mom or what?

Logic wrote on Feb 1^st, 2014 at 7:52am:


Surely the customer could take the dealer to the office of fair trading due to being ripped off by the dealer.


Logic wrote on Feb 1^st, 2014 at 7:52am:


Certainly do, makes sense why you go to the extra length for the customer.

Logic wrote on Feb 1^st, 2014 at 7:52am:


I have seen some of the crap people fill out when I have attended dealer training for Toyota.
Me personally I'm not the worlds greatest speller but if I can't spell I look it up first, I sometimes road test other mechanics work prior to being handed over to the service advisor and some of the spelling and stories are pretty shocking to say the least.

Even working for a different car make it is frustrating that you can get thrown a repair order to replace X part with no other reason then have to come up with some fairy tale of why the part failed. 9 times out 10 it is the wrong part for the issue.

Where?

I would love to compare!