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Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico (Read 167,928 times)
K2356
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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #75 - Nov 6th, 2013 at 11:45am
 
You Wrote "Have you ever validated an inductive discharge ignition system primary drive?"


Never had to get that close.... with scan data these days and the fact the onboard computer monitors  pickup so much more.Scoping that fast is redundant  to me. In some regards scoping has become less used for certain tasks these days.


You wrote "You should take your laptop to the shop.  Something is wrong with it if it is getting hotter." 


There is nothing wrong with my laptops, however running them all day is also hard on the hard drives and battery. Running them all day reduces the life of them. 


You wrote "After time yes.  Just like anything else...like a Modis...."


Sure just like a Modis.... However if I have to clear a code after doing a repair I can tell you this... If I have the choice of grabbing a factory tooled laptop thats been shut off or grabbing a handheld scanner that boots alot quicker then a laptop... You bet I am going to grab the handheld tool to get the code cleared and job done so its out the door quicker... same applies to using a scope.



You Wrote "What extra wires?  There is only one extra wire....the USB cable."


Ya an extra wire(USB cable) and an extra piece of equipment (the pod), dont forget the a/c adapter cable that you need because the laptop will need charging at times.. bottom line is more cables = more of a pain.


You Wrote "Updates are optional but usually a good idea....not always though"


If you dont do the updates on laptops in terms of Automotive factory tooling ... you either wont be able to use the tool anylonger because it will time out or reprogram modules because that will also time out.

Laptops are a pain ... I wish the manufactures would bring back handheld diagnostic scan tools.
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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #76 - Nov 6th, 2013 at 12:35pm
 
K2356 wrote on Nov 6th, 2013 at 11:45am:
Never had to get that close.... with scan data these days and the fact the onboard computer monitors  pickup so much more.Scoping that fast is redundant  to me. In some regards scoping has become less used for certain tasks these days.


OK, so the answer is no.  You have not ever validated a primary drive or you would not be saying that..  There is only one way to perform that task and the scanner isn't going to do it for you.  Neither is a Modis at the longer sweep times.

K2356 wrote on Nov 6th, 2013 at 11:45am:
There is nothing wrong with my laptops, however running them all day is also hard on the hard drives and battery. Running them all day reduces the life of them. 


The laptop I am using at the moment runs 16 hours a day each and every day and has for four years now.  I have to purposefully reboot it from time to time cuz it's either on or on standby all the time.  Turning a PC on and off all the time is worse for it than leaving it running.  Not sure what kind of laptops you are getting but sounds like it may be time to get a good one.  I have had my share of crappy ones too.

K2356 wrote on Nov 6th, 2013 at 11:45am:
Sure just like a Modis....


And they can't charge the battery.  I had to get the external charger for mine.  Now no more battery issues....until I wear them out eventually.


K2356 wrote on Nov 6th, 2013 at 11:45am:
dont forget the a/c adapter cable that you need because the laptop will need charging at times..


OK valid point.  Sometimes two more cables.   Roll Eyes

K2356 wrote on Nov 6th, 2013 at 11:45am:
Laptops are a pain ... I wish the manufactures would bring back handheld diagnostic scan tools.


Not gonna happen.  We have to adapt or become obsolete.  Those things need to be updated too BTW.

I was mainly referring to PicoScope updates, which are free.  But not always a good idea, depending on the versions.
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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #77 - Nov 7th, 2013 at 1:39am
 
K2356 wrote on Nov 6th, 2013 at 11:45am:
I wish the manufactures would bring back handheld diagnostic scan tools


I will take a mongoose cable over using a handheld  IT2 or IT1.

It is heaps faster using a PC based scanner than a handheld scanner and J2534 reprogramming is all on the same tool.

K2356 wrote on Nov 6th, 2013 at 11:45am:
Ya an extra wire(USB cable) and an extra piece of equipment (the pod), dont forget the a/c adapter cable that you need because the laptop will need charging at times.. bottom line is more cables = more of a pain.


It is no worse than using a OBD 2 connector break out box on every vehicle you use a scanner on. You get used to it over time.

K2356 wrote on Nov 6th, 2013 at 11:45am:
In some regards scoping has become less used for certain tasks these days.


I have to disagree with you on that.
Newer vehicles there is still a rather large need to use a powerful scope. Yes scanners have come a long way but they are only so fast.Good luck trying to find a intermittent drop out in a drive by wire TPS with scan data.

I work with a lot of techs that don't believe in using scopes or only use them when needed.
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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #78 - Nov 7th, 2013 at 4:20am
 
The only reason anyone would say that a scope is not needed as much these days is because they either don't know how to use it or what you can actually test with it.  That also goes for a scope that is not capable of testing at the level a pico is.  People become use to using what they have and if you were not brought up around a scope you learn other ways to figure things out.  But there can and will always be things that requires a scope.......and sometimes a powerful scope.  I've used snap ons scopes and pico.  There really is no comparison.
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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #79 - Nov 7th, 2013 at 8:36am
 
Scott
   your reading comprehension certainly needs some work..... Please re-read what I stated..."In some regards scoping has become less used for certain tasks these days". I am not going to get into details here because I have MANY examples of this and there are many "intelligent" technicians that would agree.
 
   The less I have to pull out any of my "various scopes" the faster Technician I can be, So if it means using the scanner to interpret data and perform bi-directional tests/power balances/cranking compression tests/misc function tests/actuator tests/fuel flow meter tests  etc etc.. vs. pulling out a scope and wasting time. Then with the scanner I become more proficient. I NEVER said there wasnt a time and place for a scope.... If you are a iATN member you can go and search the waveform library as you will see more scope captures from me on there then Autonerdz has in all of their reference waveform library.
So before you start knocking someone maybe you should do your homework first
.
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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #80 - Nov 7th, 2013 at 8:57am
 
K2356 wrote on Nov 7th, 2013 at 8:36am:
"In some regards scoping has become less used for certain tasks these days".


http://www.flatrater.com/

Here is a place you can learn to become more proficient with you scan tool!   Wink
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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #81 - Nov 7th, 2013 at 9:01am
 
A very good example Earl.
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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #82 - Nov 7th, 2013 at 10:10am
 
K2356 wrote on Nov 7th, 2013 at 8:36am:
If you are a iATN member you can go and search the waveform library as you will see more scope captures from me on there then Autonerdz has in all of their reference waveform library.


You have no clue what we have.  You can only see the tip of the iceberg.

K2356 wrote on Nov 7th, 2013 at 8:36am:
your reading comprehension certainly needs some work.....


Just a friendly reminder....you might want to read this:

http://www.autonerdz.com/cgi/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1094423353
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K2356
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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #83 - Nov 7th, 2013 at 10:34am
 
I asked one of your members as to how many waveforms are in the reference library.... As this might peak my interest to subscribe. I am sure we both can figure out why I am not a member yet.
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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #84 - Nov 7th, 2013 at 12:11pm
 
Wow I just walked into the wrong side of this thread. Smiley

I have not used a modis, verus or verdict. I have a Solus Ultra, a Vantage Pro and a Pico

Before I spent the $$$ to buy Pico I called my snap-on rep to train me or give me advice on getting the most from my Vantage Pro. I wanted a long capture time to find intermittent problems and I wanted to be able to zoom in after I saved a file. I was using shopstream connect to view and print files/waveforms after I saved them but I couldn't zoom in like I wanted. I received little help from my regional Snap-on tech guy and when I called the tech line they couldn't understand why I would like to record zoomed out just to zoom back in. I then bit the bullet and bought the Pico Quad kit from Tom and haven't looked back.

I use a $500 laptop that I bought for scanning VWs and haven't had any problems yet. The battery life while using the Pico is about 2 hours. The battery life on my vantage is about 2 hours as well but I have a spare battery on the charger all the time. I leave my laptop running 24/7 and it never gets hot excluding the time my Service writer pulled out a VW into the sun while I had my laptop in the car.

I still use the vantage for certain tasks like checking draws on a vehicle where I don't want the extra setup time. I prefer to have my scanner separate from my scope so I can work on more than one vehicle at time. I do like how the snap-on scopes will often give you the easiest place to test a component and also a reference waveform.

I understand my ignorance on snap-on scope operation but the tech help and solution wasn't there and I often lack the time needed for experimental learning. I guess I enjoy the ease of using the Pico and try to focus on the problem instead of scope setup

Some people like different tools and that's the bottom line. Use whatever tool "you" can use most effectively to Diagnose and Repair accurately and quickly.

I think we can all calm down just a little  Roll Eyes
Try not to crucify me for my choices and opinions.
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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #85 - Nov 7th, 2013 at 1:43pm
 
Kevin,

First I want to commend you for your massive contributions to iATN.  That's an example of your dedication.   Smiley

K2356 wrote on Nov 7th, 2013 at 10:34am:
how many waveforms are in the reference library....


You may not know what our reference waveform library is.  We have a dedicated library to download composed of PicoScope psreference files.  This is just cam and crank relationship examples.  At last count maybe 300 examples from 24 manufacturers.  this is a drop in the bucket.

As for other examples posted on the forums here and our cloud, you are looking at another 20,000 or so since 2004.

iATN has been around a LOT longer and their total library numbers about 33,500.

This may put things in perspective for you. 

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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #86 - Nov 7th, 2013 at 8:01pm
 
K2356 wrote on Nov 7th, 2013 at 8:36am:
Scott
   your reading comprehension certainly needs some work..... Please re-read what I stated..."In some regards scoping has become less used for certain tasks these days". I am not going to get into details here because I have MANY examples of this and there are many "intelligent" technicians that would agree.

   The less I have to pull out any of my "various scopes" the faster Technician I can be, So if it means using the scanner to interpret data and perform bi-directional tests/power balances/cranking compression tests/misc function tests/actuator tests/fuel flow meter tests  etc etc.. vs. pulling out a scope and wasting time. Then with the scanner I become more proficient. I NEVER said there wasnt a time and place for a scope.... If you are a iATN member you can go and search the waveform library as you will see more scope captures from me on there then Autonerdz has in all of their reference waveform library.
So before you start knocking someone maybe you should do your homework first
.


Wow you fly off the handle in an instant.  If I was referring to you specifically I would have quoted what you said like I did here.  I use to have a tech that worked for me that believed the same thing and I showed him why scopes are needed more today than ever.  But if I've learned anything in life it's that when someone has made up their mind about something to the level you have, there is no changing it!  My time is much better spent educating myself and helping others that want help and not bringing people down.

I wish you the best, but I'm not sure this is the place for you.  Although that is not my decision.  I just hope you can make your future post more productive for yourself and others.

I say good day sir.
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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #87 - Nov 9th, 2013 at 12:58pm
 
Chad Austin wrote on Nov 7th, 2013 at 12:11pm:
Wow I just walked into the wrong side of this thread.


  Yeah, me too. 

  Kevin, you have in my opinion outwardly "talked down" to 2 different members within a half dozen responses in this thread.  What's the deal? 

K2356 wrote on Nov 7th, 2013 at 8:36am:
as you will see more scope captures from me on there then Autonerdz has in all of their reference waveform library.


  Not sure about that, furthermore, are you counting "zoomed out"  (Grin) views of the same capture as more than 1?

  What a jackwagon.  Cool
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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #88 - Nov 10th, 2013 at 1:12am
 
So are we satisfied that we are in disagreement then? Cool
    Kids, you may now stop quarreling. Some of you need a time out; go stand in the corner! Cheesy
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Re: Question of the Month: Verus Vs Pico
Reply #89 - Nov 10th, 2013 at 9:29am
 
There are so many posts in this thread that just seem insane to me.

We're talking about tools here, right?  Not religion or politics or hot-button topics, TOOLS!

What is there to get so uppity about?

I don't understand why people would act like there are "right" and "wrong" answers here, or act like someone insulted their deity or belief structure. 

We're talking about TOOLS!

I have used SO scopes EXTENSIVELY.  You guys that know me on here are well aware of that, and my history with the Verus.  I still use my Vantage pro every day. 

The Verus is gone, and now I use a pico for heavy lifting.

I know both tools very well.

The Snap on tools are faster to deploy in most cases, and depending on the signal being captured can often get you to a faster diagnosis.  I feel that this point is true.
The Pico is much more powerful.  It samples much faster and gives an insane level of detail.  It can capture giant amounts of data at a time and allows you to manipulate the waves with much greater control after the fact.  I feel that this is true.

I don't care what scope someone is using, as long as they are using it and not letting it collect dust while throwing parts at problems.

It hurts my brain to see anyone getting upset over the subject or acting like a child.  Save that for a religious forum.  This is a tool discussion.  I mean, come on!  TOOLS!

PS:  My cheap little ACER laptop runs all day 5-6 days a week and has never overheated, acted up, or done anything else it shouldn't do.  It also runs the Pico just fine.  Smooth and fast.
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