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Ford CMP vs. CKP synchronization (Read 158,441 times)
Mick
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Re: Ford CMP vs. CKP synchronization
Reply #15 - Sep 25th, 2007 at 9:14am
 
Hi Danny

I have what you need  SmileyI had the very vehicle in for quick service customer wait Smiley so did some captures for you please hold on will I upload the for you Roll Eyes

Mick
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Tom Roberts
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Re: Ford CMP vs. CKP synchronization
Reply #16 - Sep 25th, 2007 at 9:38am
 
That's interesting, Rick.  VCT is different but your sync is not at all like the Z-Tech.  Here is an example of one in an Escort.  The first cam pulse is synced to about 20 deg ATDC.
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escortvct.gif (88 KB | )
escortvct.gif

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Mick
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Re: Ford CMP vs. CKP synchronization
Reply #17 - Sep 25th, 2007 at 9:49am
 
Hi Danny

Now that didnt take long lets see if I did the upload right

Do you have a Pic 4 Channel?

Mick
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Rick Hill
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Re: Ford CMP vs. CKP synchronization
Reply #18 - Sep 25th, 2007 at 11:57am
 
Tom your capture of thre escort is what I expected this v8 to look like given the information I've read about the ford vct. You'll notice the second wave in the set of three is close at about 10* atc. I haven't found anymore information as to just what it's supposed to be for this application but I know this has no codes for cam synch problems.  Here is one with the actuator grounded and the cam in full retard position.
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Re: Ford CMP vs. CKP synchronization
Reply #19 - Sep 25th, 2007 at 2:39pm
 
On those VRS cam sensors, the first two; are the cam signals from a bad sensor? There are some gnarly bumps...
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Danny Berry, Sr.
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Re: Ford CMP vs. CKP synchronization
Reply #20 - Sep 25th, 2007 at 6:38pm
 
No I don't have a scope at all yet. I will get one eventually.

Thanks for the captures. I have a disk with cam and crank relationships but withou being able to zoom in like you did it did not make any since. Your wave forms cleared up the confusion. I was looking for the 24x and 4x reference signals. Smiley

I have some notes from GM stating: creates a camshaft reference signal(1/2x cam high) sent to the PCM for fuel injection control. This is in reference to the ignition control module. Can you shed any light on that for me?
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Thanks,

Mick

I am intersested in the autumotive diagnostic and amazed at what you can see through the eyes of a scope. I may dable in this as a hobby when I retire in a few years. I have been involved in the electrical field of engineering for almost 40 years. Spent 3 years in the Army repairng Radio Relay Carrier euipment and Designed Power Substations and Transmission Lines for 36 Years.

I like your Motto: Always learning

THanks,

Danny




Mick wrote on Sep 25th, 2007 at 9:49am:
Hi Danny

Now that didnt take long lets see if I did the upload right

Do you have a Pic 4 Channel?

Mick

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Re: Ford CMP vs. CKP synchronization
Reply #21 - Jan 28th, 2008 at 11:51am
 
This post is a life saver.  Thanks for the discussion!
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Rick Hill
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Re: Ford CMP vs. CKP synchronization
Reply #22 - Jan 28th, 2008 at 1:56pm
 
Here is a brand new ford cam synchronizer in a 95 ranger 3.0 from ford that I installed today. From this it's plain to see why they went to the vr sensors.  This machining error wouldn't matter on a vr sensor. Smiley
 Looks like about a 12 degree error should I take a file and finish their job or just leave it?  I think in this case if ford didn't care I don't either. SmileyThe vane is longer in duration than the blank side.  Smiley
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Re: Ford CMP vs. CKP synchronization
Reply #23 - Jan 28th, 2008 at 4:41pm
 
Yeah, Rick.  I've noticed that before.  It's not all that critical.  As long as the CMP transitions well within the PIP high window, your good to go.   Wink

Nice to be as exacting as possible though just because   Cool

Mike,

Glad you found this one useful.  You would be surprised at what you can find in here  Wink
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Re: Ford CMP vs. CKP synchronization
Reply #24 - Dec 25th, 2008 at 11:34am
 
Rick

Here is one that is even worse than yours.
I did not work on this vehicle but did get a chance to scope it
It was installed 180* out of sync as well as being no good.
this one was an aftermarket unit

Wilf
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Re: Ford CMP vs. CKP synchronization
Reply #25 - Feb 1st, 2009 at 9:01am
 
Rick

Quote:
Looks like about a 12 degree error should I take a file and finish their job or just leave it?  I think in this case if ford didn't care I don't either. The vane is longer in duration than the blank side.   


Can you help me out a bit here Rick.
I have been seeing a lot of these sensors and they are not equally low and high a great persentage of the time. I can't find any info that states any other section ofthe cmp sensor signal besides the transition from low to hi is used for anything. If that is correct then it does not matter al all about the on / off time relationship.
The cmp could be no more than a spike in the propper position to sync the injectors. 
I will modify a syncronizer and install it in  3.0L next chance that I get.

Tell me what you think or fill me in if I am dead wrong

Wilf
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Re: Ford CMP vs. CKP synchronization
Reply #26 - Feb 1st, 2009 at 9:26am
 
Wilf I think you're probably right. It would be interesting to see if it looks at the falling edge though.  Say the falling edge was only about 30-40 degrees after the rising edge would it affect the misfire counter and injector sync , just one or the other or none. Notice how with the vr sensors if it's advanced to the point the rising edge is at or before pip it doesn't see the falling edge. IOW if it doesn't see the rising edge before the falling edge it doesn't see any of it. Same as if you revered the polarity on the vr sensor. Smiley

PS I was looking back through this thread and I see I put up two captures of a 5.4 vct system,reply #14 and #18. I don't know why I didn't mention it but one of those cams is 360* out of time. It didn't run that bad either for an engine with a broken exhaust valve spring.
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« Last Edit: Feb 1st, 2009 at 9:46am by Rick Hill »  

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Re: Ford CMP vs. CKP synchronization
Reply #27 - Jun 12th, 2013 at 5:57pm
 
the 3 valve triton is one I would use alot have them all the time with phaser and chain guide problems it apaers here the cam sensors mirror each other and this engine has two chains so am I right too assume all I need too do is sync the cam sensors if they dont mirror each other bingo
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Re: Ford CMP vs. CKP synchronization
Reply #28 - Jun 13th, 2013 at 9:05am
 
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Re: Ford CMP vs. CKP synchronization
Reply #29 - Mar 31st, 2022 at 6:36pm
 
Tom Roberts wrote on Feb 21st, 2004 at 4:43pm:
 

[img]

The above is typical six cylinder sync.  It's more difficult to be exact here, but we have some tolerance.




What is considered a "typical six cylinder"? 3.8/4.0? Which years specifically?

I am working on a bit of a mutt myself...



Jeremy
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