The Autonerdz Community Forums | |
https://www.autonerdz.com/cgi/yabb2/YaBB.pl
General Public Area >> PicoScope >> attenuator max input https://www.autonerdz.com/cgi/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1392985000 Message started by Partyzan on Feb 21st, 2014 at 4:16am |
Title: attenuator max input Post by Partyzan on Feb 21st, 2014 at 4:16am
I have posted this question on picoauto forum, but I have no answer for two days. I want to work so maybe you can help me clarify this.
I have just purchased a standard kit, which has 4 attenuators 1:20. There is a warning on each of them "max voltage 300V". One of main uses of these attenuators would be ignition primary, which can easily have spikes up to 400V. I am worried not to cook the attenuators measuring this ignition primary, and in case this may happen - cooking the scope input due to over-voltage (giving the direct 400 V spike to scope instead of 20 which the attenuator would produce). On the other hand, I've seen so much manuals from different sources, with people using these attenuators for ignition - without worrying to damage anything. I would appreciate your comments on this case. Thank you ! |
Title: Re: attenuator max input Post by Ward Zintel on Feb 21st, 2014 at 5:01am
Hello Partyzan!
I looked at the information on the site here where you can buy them, they do list as Max 300V input. The scope itself has a 100V max input, so the attenuators are basically there to de-spike, they handle the ignition spikes (pri) with no problem. If you're still concerned send Tom a message, he can likely explain it a little more elegantly than this. On a hunch the may be rated 300V continuous, more on spikes. I do know if they didn't work on ignition primary my scope would have been in for repair many many times now. -Ward- |
Title: Re: attenuator max input Post by Tom Roberts on Feb 21st, 2014 at 9:12am Partyzan wrote on Feb 21st, 2014 at 4:16am:
You have no worries there. Just be sure that the scope is always grounded to B neg at all times. The attenuators need to be grounded to work properly. The scope grounds are common so only one channel need be grounded. |
Title: Re: attenuator max input Post by Partyzan on Feb 21st, 2014 at 10:59pm
I see, thank you.
|
Title: Re: attenuator max input Post by Partyzan on Feb 26th, 2014 at 1:12pm
In relation to Tom's last post, I came to another problem. Tom said that all channels have the same ground.
In this case I want to ask: if we connect one channel correctly (scope ground to battery "-" and scope signal to battery "+"), then we connect second channel ground to anything with the voltage - this way we are in the risk of burning scope or vehicle device, is this correct? This came to my head after I remembered that some signals have to be measured not on base ground, but to the signal ground - which may be a few volts above base ground (e.g. some lambda sensors have risen ground of about 2 volts). Or on the worst case if some wires gets mixed and second channel ground gets 12 volts B+. If all channels really have common ground, then any of my mentioned situations are surely cooking the scope and smth. in the car ... Aren't they ? |
Title: Re: attenuator max input Post by Tom Roberts on Feb 26th, 2014 at 2:22pm Partyzan wrote on Feb 26th, 2014 at 1:12pm:
Not likely. The automotive PicoScope models have resetting thermal fuses to prevent damage should a high current ground loop be created. However, you can cause some interesting things to happen on the vehicle by crossing up your signals by placing channel grounds at different locations. For example, placing signal and ground across a crank sensor and then another channel across the battery would ground out your CKP. You can place a channel signal and ground across a sensor but then you cannot use any other channels. The proper way is to place any and all grounds at the bat neg, if possible. There are exceptions, but you better know what you are doing and have a good reason. For sensors with floating grounds, two channels can be used and math channels employed to see the signal as it is while keeping the scope properly grounded. I share this in the public area since it is a safety tip: http://www.autonerdz.com/cgi/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1285781168/0#0 |
Title: Re: attenuator max input Post by Partyzan on Feb 28th, 2014 at 1:01pm
This couldn't have been explained better . Thank you so much !
PS - I measured the resistance between scope grounds - about 2.5 ohms, so having voltage between them would sure initiate high current. |
The Autonerdz Community Forums » Powered by YaBB 2.5 AE! YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2010. All Rights Reserved. |