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Boost solenoid deadtime. (Read 216 times)
Steve J
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Boost solenoid deadtime.
Aug 5th, 2018 at 3:54am
 
Hello all. Im new to this site (and picoscope) and figured i would say hi this way.
Im a tech from Norway. Been working with several different dealerships over the years and now im with a MB/Peugeot/Kia shop. (pluss every other brand in addition so we have a big span on what we do) We dont sell cars but soley work on them. One thing none of the shops i have been working at did not have was a scope. Nor does my current one. Always missed one and just decided to buy one for myself. Gonna use it mostly at work though (the shops usually provide us with tools here. There is only a few places where the techs own the tools they use at work). Dont have any experience with scopes on a car, and have only sporadicaly used one in another hobby of mine (repairing stereo equipment like amps and receivers and such). I have a Rigol 1054z for that. But havent used it much. So i consider myself as a neewb to this all...

So yesterday i got my scope delivered and figured i would have a little playaround with it today in my garage.
I have tuning as a hobby and got an aftermarket ECU in my car. In this ecu i have the option to use a deadtime table for my boostsolenoid(s). Just like injector deadtimes. When thinking about it why shouldnt we have one(?)

Hooked the scope up to solenoid control wire and an ampclamp. Also hooked a WPS500 to the exhaustport of the solenoid and a vacuumpump (in pressure mode) to the inletport on it.
Then put the ecu in testmode on the solenoid at 17hz (thats just the frequency i found to be most responsive on my car) and 50% duty.
Did this at KOEO and KOER to get a few numbers.

So here is a screenshot of one of the samples (if i can manage to post it...) I am calling deadtime from the point where it turns on to where the pressure starts to rise. You can also see that it rises at the same point as the ampclamps "bump". I was patriculary curious if it would actually do that or if it would start rising a bit AFTER the piston started to move.

Solenoid is the regular MAC valve.
So applying the numbers would obviously have me tune the boost dutycycle tables again BUT it SHOULD give me a more stable boost level once done.
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« Last Edit: Aug 5th, 2018 at 5:24am by Steve J »  
 
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Spence
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Re: Boost solenoid deadtime.
Reply #1 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 4:52am
 
Welcome to the group Steve.

Looks like you did a nice job on your capture. Can you post the file so we can do measurements.

Where you measured would be the so called "dead time" as you term it. Does your ECU also allow for voltage differences to be tuned? If not it may be internally set and what you would need to make sure that the voltage when you test is what they would expect for their base setting. Did that make sense or would you rather me expand on it?

I would be careful with the filter used.

Welcome to the group!

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Steve J
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Re: Boost solenoid deadtime.
Reply #2 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 5:12am
 
Thanks! Happy to be here Smiley

I THINK you are asking if the ecu have voltage sections for the deadtimes and that would be a yes. Or maybe you are thinking about that the voltages the scope sees might NOT be the voltages the ECU are seeing. So the ECU might be at a different spot voltage vise in the deadimetable than what the pico suggests...
Only filter applied to that capture was on the ampclamp. But i hear you!

I messed up a little bit when saving the files (im allowed, im new to this Wink  ) but here is one of them attached. Also the frequenzy on that capture is 10 hz. not 17. But hey...
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Re: Boost solenoid deadtime.
Reply #3 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 6:00am
 
Steve J wrote on Aug 5th, 2018 at 5:12am:
Thanks! Happy to be here Smiley

I THINK you are asking if the ecu have voltage sections for the deadtimes and that would be a yes.


This is exactly what I am asking. With that said I would pop Ch D on the voltage supply side and monitor it as well. I see the one on the control side but want to see how well the supply maintains while the circuit is under load.

Steve J wrote on Aug 5th, 2018 at 5:12am:
Or maybe you are thinking about that the voltages the scope sees might NOT be the voltages the ECU are seeing. So the ECU might be at a different spot voltage vise in the deadimetable than what the pico suggests...


Good point and I would want to make sure it has a good supply and ground. Having both the loaded components and the control components on the same page is a good thing. 

Steve J wrote on Aug 5th, 2018 at 5:12am:
Only filter applied to that capture was on the ampclamp. But i hear you!


Good.

Steve J wrote on Aug 5th, 2018 at 5:12am:
I messed up a little bit when saving the files (im allowed, im new to this Wink  ) but here is one of them attached. Also the frequenzy on that capture is 10 hz. not 17. But hey...


No worries. Thanks for posting them. Not bad for a so called newbie...  Cool
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Steve J
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Re: Boost solenoid deadtime.
Reply #4 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 6:30am
 
I think im just gonna do a datalog in the ecu parallel to the scopecapture and plot the measured deadtime to the respective voltage reported from the ecu log.
Seems i have to play a little more with this project :p

Edit: Just had another go at it and my scoped voltage is veery close to the ecu logged voltage at that output. So all good!
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« Last Edit: Aug 5th, 2018 at 8:40am by Steve J »  
 
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Re: Boost solenoid deadtime.
Reply #5 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 8:41am
 
I work through similar tables when programing systems when dealing with fuel injectors. I normally go off my Pico scope data as I feel it is more the real deal.

I wish you well with your efforts.
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Steve J
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Re: Boost solenoid deadtime.
Reply #6 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 8:48am
 
Thanks Spence.
Here is another file (but without the pressure this time) with the car running for those intersted to see. Also i moved my pickup points to a spot where i get a reading of BOTH my solenoids (got two hooked up to one single aux output on the ecu. So the amps are doubled
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Re: Boost solenoid deadtime.
Reply #7 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 9:06am
 
Do you have or can you get any captures while monitoring the supply voltage as well?
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Steve J
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Re: Boost solenoid deadtime.
Reply #8 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 9:16am
 
Its out of reach without breaking out the toolbox im afraid Smiley Maybe when im in there, but not today!
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Re: Boost solenoid deadtime.
Reply #9 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 9:36am
 
Steve J wrote on Aug 5th, 2018 at 9:16am:
Its out of reach without breaking out the toolbox im afraid Smiley Maybe when im in there, but not today!


Works for me.   Smiley
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Steve J
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Re: Boost solenoid deadtime.
Reply #10 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 9:57am
 
That said Spence. If memory serves me right... a 50mm2 cable runs from the battery into the car to a fuseblock. From that i ran a 1.5mm2 cable to a relay which in turn runs to the solenoids. And from there back to the ecu (obviously).
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Re: Boost solenoid deadtime.
Reply #11 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 10:02am
 
Steve J wrote on Aug 5th, 2018 at 9:57am:
That said Spence. If memory serves me right... a 50mm2 cable runs from the battery into the car to a fuseblock. From that i ran a 1.5mm2 cable to a relay which in turn runs to the solenoids. And from there back to the ecu (obviously).


All well and good. Designing a wiring system starts with calculations. From there dynamic testing removes all doubt.
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