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Master Certified Tech? How to find out? (Read 100,194 times)
Gail Taylor
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Re: Master Certified Tech? How to find out?
Reply #30 - Jan 31st, 2014 at 7:52am
 
Logic wrote on Jan 30th, 2014 at 10:19pm:
Then on top of it despite all the hype, dishonest charging, miss diagnosis and over the top hourly rate...they still lose a million dollars a year!


Guess I'm not done! I misunderstood your opinion on BMW Dealer service. I have ZERO experience with BMW dealers and nearly no experience in servicing them, but I do find it somewhat "comforting" that someone else feels the info available is lacking.

I thought you were inferring anyone NOT in a dealership shouldn't touch these vehicles and were being unethical for even attempting a repair.

Apparently I was seeing something that wasn't there. Embarrassed Cry

Grin
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Logic
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Re: Master Certified Tech? How to find out?
Reply #31 - Jan 31st, 2014 at 10:17am
 
Gail,

I was being critical of BMW and specifically the German Australian setup.

BMW USA are better than BMW Australia.

BMW Australia thinks that it is their God given right to be the only ones that work on BMW Cars.

I believe that customers have the right to choose, that any person who wants to excel at his craft should be able to freely do so and should be encouraged to do so.

Dealers are greatly misguided as to their importance in the scheme of things, they survive by filling customers minds with lies ans through BMW withholding information and tooling (I might note that neither of these are a problem for me).

No I was not inferring that dealers are the only ones that can do the work, dealers are the ones that say that, fact is when they need to go outside the BMW test plans....they are in trouble....big trouble.

I will give you one summary, I fixed a car that a local dealer had not been able to fix last year in December.
7k had already been spent trying to fix it at the dealer, they had quoted another 10.3k and on top of that the particulate filter was blocked, had the dealer replaced that too, which is how they deal with particulate filters at that dealer, the bill would have been 22k.

I got the opportunity.....my bill was $500...

I might add I also got a very large and expensive bottle of single malt at Christmas from this new customer.

I might post a photo of all the bottles that came in at Christmas

I have saved ex dealer customers over a 1/4 million dollars on transmissions in the last three years.

No Gail, I think the dealers really have some issues and soul searching, all these wonderful over priced facilities, and no skill.
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Gail Taylor
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Re: Master Certified Tech? How to find out?
Reply #32 - Jan 31st, 2014 at 12:34pm
 
Logic wrote on Jan 31st, 2014 at 10:17am:
No Gail, I think the dealers really have some issues and soul searching, all these wonderful over priced facilities, and no skill.


Unfortunately the real problem isn't so much a lack of skill as it is a lack of "want to" when it comes to fixing the tough stuff. Why bust your butt trying to figure-out a problem child when you can make 4 times as much selling services?

I disagree completely with that attitude but for every tech that's busting his buns on the hard stuff, resulting in less "productivity" than his workmates, there are 10 guys sucking up gravy.

Guess who the General Manger knows by name.

The guys that turn the big numbers.  Angry

Roll Eyes
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Re: Master Certified Tech? How to find out?
Reply #33 - Jan 31st, 2014 at 3:51pm
 
Then Gail, clearly you and I have no bad blood between us then.

I believe that the fellow who does the hard yards is really the productive one.
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Gail Taylor
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Re: Master Certified Tech? How to find out?
Reply #34 - Jan 31st, 2014 at 5:16pm
 
Logic wrote on Jan 31st, 2014 at 3:51pm:
Then Gail, clearly you and I have no bad blood between us then.

I believe that the fellow who does the hard yards is really the productive one.


In this area it's all about the numbers. If you aren't producing 110% they don't know your name. Sad
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Re: Master Certified Tech? How to find out?
Reply #35 - Jan 31st, 2014 at 5:47pm
 
They all know my name
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Anthony Lamb
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Re: Master Certified Tech? How to find out?
Reply #36 - Jan 31st, 2014 at 7:03pm
 
Thanks for posting that Logic, it has turned me off ever working for a BMW dealer Smiley.

Logic wrote on Jan 30th, 2014 at 8:58am:
NATURALLY IF A DEALER TECH CANNOT DIAGNOSE THE VEHICLE WITHIN A SHORT SPACE OF TIME USING THE bmw TESTER AND TEST PLANS, THEN WE TURN IT INTO A puma CASE AND THE ISSUE IS DEALT WITH BY A German engineer, who instructs the dealer what to replace, taking away any further diagnostic opportunity from the dealer technician. Now that is a great way to hone one’s skill is it not?


Obviously BMW don't want anyone working in a dealer to have any skills apart from changing parts, must be the main reason why they have such a large turn over of technicians. They must only want to keep all the knowledge in the inner ring of engineers a world away.
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Re: Master Certified Tech? How to find out?
Reply #37 - Jan 31st, 2014 at 7:40pm
 
Logic wrote on Jan 30th, 2014 at 8:58am:
I note from your profile that all of your posts that are currently visible from your profile, all 25 of them are made in the public section, do you not have access to the members area?


If someone is Picogroup, it will say so directly beneath their username.
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Re: Master Certified Tech? How to find out?
Reply #38 - Jan 31st, 2014 at 11:28pm
 
Anthony Lamb wrote on Jan 31st, 2014 at 7:03pm:
Thanks for posting that Logic, it has turned me off ever working for a BMW dealer Smiley.


Obviously BMW don't want anyone working in a dealer to have any skills apart from changing parts, must be the main reason why they have such a large turn over of technicians. They must only want to keep all the knowledge in the inner ring of engineers a world away.


Do you want to know why?

It is simple, teach a master tech how to fix BMW cars without the support structure so that he is capable of repairing vehicles by looking at a diagnostic machine, wiring diagrams and tools like a Picoscope and that tech may leave and start up as a independent.

Now BMW would not want that.

Keep them dumb with only what they need to know is the policy.

Then they get indoctrinated that anybody who is independent is "aftermarket" and does not know what they are doing.

They fill BMW owners with the same crap, then employ young girls with their tits popping out on high heals that they can hardly walk on to flirt with every man who comes in...

The dealers think people don't see through it....well I have news for you they do see through it.

A lot of businesses are confused about what their purpose is, BMW has lost their way.

In Australia in the good old days when Ron Meacham was at the helm and Grahame McDougall was head of training, what a fine organization it was back then.

No, there is no way you would want to work for a BMW dealer nor employ somebody who has worked at one.
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Re: Master Certified Tech? How to find out?
Reply #39 - Jan 31st, 2014 at 11:38pm
 
Oh by the way Anthony,....with the F cars you can now only get a schematic when logged into BMW, there is no more WDS (wiring diagram system),
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Re: Master Certified Tech? How to find out?
Reply #40 - Jan 31st, 2014 at 11:38pm
 
As a dealer that is !

No "aftermarket" allowed in Australia
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Re: Master Certified Tech? How to find out?
Reply #41 - Feb 1st, 2014 at 1:47am
 
Logic wrote on Jan 31st, 2014 at 11:38pm:
with the F cars you can now only get a schematic when logged into BMW, there is no more WDS (wiring diagram system


So how do you 'work around' that Ian?
Do you see your days as a "dealer alternative" numbered regarding the newer models?

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Re: Master Certified Tech? How to find out?
Reply #42 - Feb 1st, 2014 at 3:13am
 
Logic wrote on Jan 31st, 2014 at 11:28pm:
It is simple, teach a master tech how to fix BMW cars without the support structure so that he is capable of repairing vehicles by looking at a diagnostic machine, wiring diagrams and tools like a Picoscope and that tech may leave and start up as a independent.


Yes I see that BMW sees that as a threat to themselves.
but they shouldn't be looking at it that way, surely it would cost them more on warranty claims by having poorly trained technicians and poor service information.

Logic wrote on Jan 31st, 2014 at 11:38pm:
Oh by the way Anthony,....with the F cars you can now only get a schematic when logged into BMW, there is no more WDS (wiring diagram system)


Well that is major PITA.
Does seem counter intuitive that BMW is giving it's dealers less information to diagnose cars that are getting more and more complex.
BMW seem they want the warranty period to be over so they don't care how many parts get thrown at a car as they are making a fortune in parts in the process.

Logic wrote on Jan 31st, 2014 at 10:17am:
I think the dealers really have some issues and soul searching, all these wonderful over priced facilities, and no skill.


Sadly I can say that isn't just limited to BMW dealers...
This is another thread in itself.

Dave,
On the master tech certification side of things in the dealer world/land.
From personal experience you turn up you pretty much pass that cert.
So there are heaps of dealer "certified" in different areas or even master technicians that still don't understand the basic things like voltage drop, how to use a scanner or a scope.
Looks good to have all these certificates on the wall on the waiting room for customers to see, in reality the tech is good at throwing parts but not at solving the actual problem.
As to find out I couldn't really say you could verify them here in Australia without being in that certain dealer network.
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Re: Master Certified Tech? How to find out?
Reply #43 - Feb 1st, 2014 at 7:52am
 

Anthony Lamb wrote on Feb 1st, 2014 at 3:13am:
Yes I see that BMW sees that as a threat to themselves.
but they shouldn't be looking at it that way, surely it would cost them more on warranty claims by having poorly trained technicians and poor service information. )



It does and big time along with fraudulent claims from dealers, that is why you have stupid warranty requirements where an old 1986 E24 needs a ISTA report to do a claim on a battery warranty, a car that cannot be connected to ISTA.

Mind you BMW make it very difficult for an independent to make a warranty claim at all.

What is interesting is that my warranty claims on parts is virtually zero, far less than the dealers warranty claims as a percentage of parts used….and you know why that is don’t you?

Logic wrote on Jan 31st, 2014 at 11:38pm:
Oh by the way Anthony,....with the F cars you can now only get a schematic when logged into BMW, there is no more WDS (wiring diagram system)



Does seem counter intuitive that BMW is giving its dealers less information to diagnose cars that are getting more and more complex.
BMW seem they want the warranty period to be over so they don't care how many parts get thrown at a car as they are making a fortune in parts in the process. ) [/quote]

Bit like Microsoft, you get paid for your mistakes.

Then there is the spike in issues that dealers find at 100,000km where the customer is charged a big wad of money, when the customer protests 7k into it he is taken to the new car showroom…..I see it over and over and over…


Logic wrote on Jan 31st, 2014 at 10:17am:
I think the dealers really have some issues and soul searching, all these wonderful over priced facilities, and no skill.



Logic wrote on Jan 31st, 2014 at 10:17am:

On the master tech certification side of things in the dealer world/land.
From personal experience you turn up you pretty much pass that cert.
So there are heaps of dealer "certified" in different areas or even master technicians that still don't understand the basic things like voltage drop, how to use a scanner or a scope.
Looks good to have all these certificates on the wall on the waiting room for customers to see, in reality the tech is good at throwing parts but not at solving the actual problem.
As to find out I couldn't really say you could verify them here in Australia without being in that certain dealer network.


Anthony, you are absolutely correct, you should see the workbooks that these techs do at training where they fill in the answers by hand in the workbooks, not only do they not know what is going on but they very frequently have literacy problems as well.
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Gail Taylor
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Re: Master Certified Tech? How to find out?
Reply #44 - Feb 1st, 2014 at 9:02am
 
A 1986 model is still covered under warranty? Even the battery? Roll Eyes
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