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PicoScope Support and Training System (Read 26,474 times)
Tom Roberts
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PicoScope Support and Training System
Jan 23rd, 2007 at 8:55am
 
This has been discussed in past threads to some extent, but I thought it a good time to post a thread on this subject so that awareness can be expanded and questions answered.  Here at Autonerdz, we decided long ago to set a new standard for automotive dedicated technical support.  Each PicoScope kit we sell comes with this support package.  The training and support system has evolved and expanded since we started it in 2002.  This support has been called the best in the industry.  Combined with the stellar Pico factory support, there is no equal.  We blazed the trail for Pico in the automotive market and since then, they have rocketed to the top of the heap in automotive scopes.  The concept was new in 2002 and it has taken time and effort to accomplish this.  Pico's forward thinking was in tune with the automotive industry development in this area and their entry in to the automotive field was timely.  We knew that support and training was key to product acceptance and, well, you know the results.  

As the automotive industry leader for PicoScope, we often get coat tail riders.  Might be another distributor trying to reinvent the wheel by attempting to copy our business model, or trying to grab sales on a popular product by slashing prices.  We really don't care.  Serious techs that do their homework will purchase from us for obvious reasons.  We don't just sell equipment, we sell an experience.  It's the ones that don't do their homework, that kick themselves later.  We are not in business to subsidize other distributors with our support system, but we do offer it for a yearly subscription for their customers.

It's true that our support system does not expire or require a subscription for those who purchase their PicoScope kit from Autonerdz.  However, this service does not extend to equipment not purchased from us.  This may seem like a no brainer concept, but some distributors that slash prices attract those who may wish to upgrade to a 3000 series scope, thinking that they can just continue to enjoy Autonerdz support.  I can't blame someone for wanting to get a good deal, but think about it.  Would you really expect the support system to apply to a tech that upgraded with another supplier?  Of course not, and it doesn't.  Again, we are not in business to subsidize other suppliers.  The 'good deal' is probably an illusion.  If you want to upgrade, do yourself a favor and call us.  Loyalty is well rewarded.  

So what support are we talking about?


·         Toll Free Phone Support.  No please hold hell or circular phone trees.  Calls are usually answered the same day.

·         Group Therapy With The Picotologist Sessions.  These monthly live voice enabled Internet sessions enable users to interact with each other exchanging files as well as helpful tips and techniques.

·         Email Support.  This is often a great way to get your issue resolved.  I can’t see what your doing on the phone but sending me your psd file allows me to see exactly what you are doing and helps me to give more exacting suggestions.

·         The PicoScope CD.  This CD contains hours of PicoScope training in Flash movie format and more.  We have training on PicoScope 5 as well as the new PicoScope 6 versions.  These will really help flatten that learning curve and turbocharge your PicoScope experience

·         The Autonerdz PicoScope Users Email Group.  This email list serve connects you with our users world wide and enables you to share files and offer tips or get help from the group.  This is a great enhancement for your PicoScope experience.

·         The Autonerdz Community Forums.   Access to the PicoScope Users section of the Autonerdz Community Forums.  Now including web delivered Flash tutorial movies.  Also supplied on CD.  

Comments from support group members here:

http://www.autonerdz.com/picousers.htm

Questions and discussion welcomed............
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Re: PicoScope Support and Training System
Reply #1 - Jan 11th, 2008 at 2:56pm
 
Recently we have been getting the highest level of validation about the effectiveness of our PicoScope Training and Support System from an unexpected source.  One of the alternative PicoScope suppliers in the US has been actively recruiting our support group members in an attempt to be able to compete with our high level of training and support.  

Certain group members who have enjoyed the free support and extensive PicoScope training and grown to expert level now service our ‘competitors’.  Now I know what shop owners feel when a fresh tech they have invested years of training into jumps ship and goes to work for the shop down the street.  

While you can draw your own conclusions about this kind of business tactic or the individuals who do this, one thing is abundantly clear.  Autonerdz PicoScope automotive training and support produces expert users.  When a ‘competitor’ has to recruit the guys you trained to get any real expertise, that’s a compliment of the highest order.   Smiley

We are THE PicoScope Authority in North America and our ‘competitors’ prove this with their own business strategy.  So, keep this in mind as you do your homework.  There is only one smart choice for PicoScope Automotive in North America….The Autonerdz Team.  We don’t just sell equipment, we sell an experience.

Hmmm.  If our ‘competitors’ want our people so bad, perhaps employers who want scope experts will feel the same?   Roll Eyes

If you are one of our support group members, you have acquired new skills and have new opportunities.  These new skills are yours to use for your own benefit.  I would have it no other way.  However, before you jump ship, please give me the courtesy of a phone call to let me know ahead of time.  You might be surprised at what we can do for you.   Wink

‘Competitors’ above is in quotes because we don’t really have any competition.   Smiley  There is only one place to get an Autonerdz PicoScope Experience.

So, how long does it take to get good with PicoScope when you are an Autonerdz PicoScope group member?  That depends on you.  How motivated are you?

Here is a recent example:

Brand new PicoScope user with some previous scope experience purchased a PicoQuad Kit.  There was a problem vehicle in the form of a 1995 Astro 4.3 Vortec which he could not figure out with the present level of equipment.  It would only act up on a road test.  It would miss and cut out under load only.  Next day, after the kit arrived, he was making excellent captures and had solved the problem vehicle using PicoScope on the road.  The following pictures identify the exact nature of the problem and the location of the problem.

Channel A is injector voltage PCM side of upper plenum injector connector.  
Channel B is injector voltage supply side of upper plenum injector connector
Channel C is injector current.

He did stay up till the wee hours reviewing the extensive training materials he received with the kit.   Smiley  

That's dedication.  What a Nerd.  Wink
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« Last Edit: Jan 11th, 2008 at 3:59pm by Tom Roberts »  

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Re: PicoScope Support and Training System
Reply #2 - Jan 11th, 2008 at 7:57pm
 
Techs,

Tom has invested an enormous amount of time, and so have I, not to mention the expense, to produce the highest quality of support and training material to our customers. I’ve went the extra mile to help users globally even if they bought somewhere else. Should we keep doing that? I know the answer, but would like your opinion.

It is amazing by the number of techs that become experts so quick. That tells two things. The GUI is user friendly and the support system points them so quickly to the problem. Not a silver bullet, just a nudge to set the scope up properly or use a different method.  

Regards,
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Re: PicoScope Support and Training System
Reply #3 - Jan 12th, 2008 at 4:01pm
 
Could you go into more detail about captures appears as though channel B capture is loosing connection intermittently? Or circuit problem at this capture point. Did tech use scan data or codes to determine where to place scope leads.      
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Re: PicoScope Support and Training System
Reply #4 - Jan 12th, 2008 at 4:18pm
 
Hi Carl.

Hell no.

I have supported Autonerdz since I first became a member.
I have bought training material,two scopes adapters etc. from Autonerdz and do not think it is right to help someone else who bought their Pico from the competition.
That in itself is a slap in the face to us loyal customers who have and will continue to support Autonerdz.
You wanted an opinion. Angry
Ronnie.
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Re: PicoScope Support and Training System
Reply #5 - Jan 12th, 2008 at 6:34pm
 
Ronnie,

Thank you for your support.  We will continue to do our best to be worthy.  You are right though.  We are not in business to subsidize other distributors.  Our services are supported by sales and other business activities.  No reason we should use those resources to support users who didn't do their homework.  I feel bad for them when they call me after the fact but just explain that they can still subscribe.

Jeeptech,

Channel B maintains an average of 14 volts.  Not sure what you see there that would indicate a bad connection at that test point.  There is a little noise on the signal.  This is to be expected with such a high sample rate of over 1MHz per channel.

Yes there was a scan done but nothing there that led specifically to this problem.  It would only act up under load and it was only logical to check the injection.  Obviously there would have been misfires and all the goofy data that goes with that, funky fuel trims etc.  No, this problem could not have been located with a scan tool.  Wrong tool for the job. 

This is a job for a scope and all the information is in the capture to make a positive diagnosis, not only of the exact nature of the problem but also the location of the problem.

Those who attended our Group Therapy Session where we discussed this one  Lips Sealed
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Re: PicoScope Support and Training System
Reply #6 - Jan 12th, 2008 at 8:10pm
 
Channel A is injector voltage between upper plenum connector and  Channel B is injector voltage between connector and power supply.
By injector connector I assume you mean AT the injector but, not a connector in the harness which is FOR the injector and that makes sense:    At the injector we have a steady supply of EMF. On the other side of the injector we see dropouts to to ground - or opens in the injector.
   The computer is not the culprit causing the droputs. We dont see that a ground is causing the dropouts because there is no accompanying current draw; therefore the dropout is an open and since we see it between the two terminals of the injector and on the one PCM side it is an intermittent openeither in the connector or in the injector.
I think that is right. I am confused but, comparing it to a voltage drop test, the problem must be BETWEEN A and B.
  Stuffin' the foot into th' mouth, thank you...
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Re: PicoScope Support and Training System
Reply #7 - Jan 13th, 2008 at 6:58am
 
Maybe I am missing something but channel B dropped below zero near end of pictured capture is this a normal condition?
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Re: PicoScope Support and Training System
Reply #8 - Jan 13th, 2008 at 7:30am
 
I did not mean bad connection at testing points I meant wiring circuits going open. If Fisher is correct I have a better understanding because I can see to much voltage drop on driver circuit  if not I am really confused. I should get a better understanding of this fuel control system because I am basing this on systems that I am familiar with.
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Re: PicoScope Support and Training System
Reply #9 - Jan 13th, 2008 at 11:07am
 
Jeeptech,

Quote:
Maybe I am missing something but channel B dropped below zero near end of pictured capture is this a normal condition?


Just an RFI spike.  Only noise.

Fisher,

Quote:
the problem must be BETWEEN A and B.


Correct.  You cannot get to the injector on these CMFI Vortec engines without some disassembly.  They are under the upper plenum.  These test points  are as close as you can get without upper plenum removal.

Here is a pic blown up a bit more with some notes.  The areas noted tell the story.  The injector circuit is grounded by the PCM but the current falls off to zero.  Therefore, we know we have a poor connection....high resistance.  We do not have a voltage drop on the PCM side from test point channel A to ground.  Therefore the high resistance is not anywhere between the channel A test point through the PCM driver to ground.  Voltage supply to injector on channel B does not fall off during the event.  Therefore the high resistance is between the channel A and B test points. 

Time to remove the upper plenum.  The bad connection will be found under there.

A nearly identical scenario is posted here:

http://www.autonerdz.com/cgi/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1127102089/0
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Re: PicoScope Support and Training System
Reply #10 - Jan 13th, 2008 at 11:17am
 
I've been a member since June of 2007 when I purchased my 3000 kit, the service support and training I reveived is just incredible.

Everytime I had a question about a product ,scope set up and even instant messaging issues - Tom was there everytime.
I haven't yet know of any other company in the industry that provides the kind of support that Tom ,Carl - Autonerdz provide
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Re: PicoScope Support and Training System
Reply #11 - Jan 13th, 2008 at 11:33am
 
Now, anyone thinking about buying a piece of equipment that is worth your hard earned money . . . just give this guys call.
They have the experience gained in the field, they used and know the tool,- unlike some diagnostic equipment sale reps- these gentlemen are highly dedicated and commited to provide you with the best service and support period.
If you already bought a kit elsewhere I feel sorry for you....
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Re: PicoScope Support and Training System
Reply #12 - Jan 13th, 2008 at 2:08pm
 
Carl I second what Ronnie said. Smiley.  When I bought my pico I looked at the options and I couldn't see where I could buy what I got for any less than I did right here anyway. Having been a user of tools for many years now I value the support that comes after the sale and it always plays a part in my choice of a tool.
  I also own a couple of other scopes and I think the pico is dollar for dollar the best scope out there at least for automotive use and this is the best place to purchase it.  SmileyI notice the pico folks are working to add to the features for automotive use  and this has to be a plus as well  SmileyJust my personal opinion. Wink

Tom
This must be a fairly common problem with these cfi 4.3s. I just had one that was a no start over the same type problem. It just wouldn't pull the injector open. When you looked at it on the scope the current  would only go to about .3 amp yet the supply looked good and the driver side showed good voltage and a pattern that pulled to ground ok  but no inductive kick to it. Some one before me had cut the connector out of it and tied the injector right to the main harness with butt connectors. I thought that was dumb in the interest of future service so I ended up replacing the injector harness and it's mating connector for the engine harness besides the injector. Roll Eyes
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Re: PicoScope Support and Training System
Reply #13 - Jan 13th, 2008 at 6:17pm
 
Thanks much for your comments Rick, Rafae.  I need my daily validation  Smiley

Spread the word.   Wink  I just hate to hear about unhappy PicoScope users.   Cry  Just no excuse for that.

Yeah, Carl is our Midwest affiliate and has been doing a great job since day one.  He was my first customer you know.  We are still seeking an East Coast US affiliate.

Let's not forget our Canadian neighbors.  Ron Brown is our Canadian affiliate in Ontario and Todd Huggard in Alberta.  Purchasing from any of our affiliates has all the same benefits as buying direct from Autonerdz headquarters.  We are a team. 

Pico is a great company and we do our best to represent them well.  I am proud to be associated with them. 
Yes, the 4.3 scenario is not uncommon.  You would be surprised at how many just miss what captures like this are telling us.  Just have to slow down and think it through, keeping in mind the basics of electrical behavior.  Captures like this are a great study because the physics are not vehicle specific.   Wink
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Re: PicoScope Support and Training System
Reply #14 - Jan 14th, 2008 at 11:17am
 
*******background music playing  "Nobody Does It Better" *******

Tom must have a deal with the Postal Service, fastest service I ever get, ordered up a few trinkets and they showed up today--Got the T-Shirt to prove it !

Thanks Tom, gonna scare up some more money and buy some more !

Regards,
Dave
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